Ep. 8 - Woman Down by Colleen Hoover

Everyone's favorite iconoclastic writer has dropped a new joint on us to ask an important question for society: what if your police officer bf cared about your art and actively helped you in your artistic endeavors? JC takes us on a journey of tropes he personally dislikes in books, police sketches for genitalia, and proper cuck caretaking. Come on down!

Outro song  Produced by Danya Vodovoz https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhUD-kVSmLY&list=PLq4r2IOXma9BSPbQZX4GUIxzbYpLo_-LJ&index=8

Transcript

SPEAKER_05 0:07

I'm sorry, what? Hello! It's Cliterature. I'm Chloe.

SPEAKER_02 0:22

I'm JC.

SPEAKER_05 0:23

Today we're back, but with like a Jay Z episode, so like don't get too hype.

SPEAKER_02 0:28

Don't get too hype. It's a it's a JC joint.

SPEAKER_05 0:31

It's J C. You know what that means. There's gonna be metaphors. There's gonna be similes. No, there won't. There's gonna be storylines! What do you think I read? Nothing with penis and balls!

SPEAKER_02 0:44

There's some there's d there's some penis and balls.

SPEAKER_05 0:46

But is it graphic penis and balls or fade to black penis and balls?

SPEAKER_02 0:49

It gets a little graphic, but not as not as graphic as Naughty Boy.

SPEAKER_05 0:53

Then what's the fucking point?

SPEAKER_02 0:56

Indeed, what is the point?

SPEAKER_05 0:57

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 0:58

Yes, Queen.

SPEAKER_05 0:59

What have you been reading recently?

SPEAKER_02 1:01

Uh recently I read the book Buddha's Wagon by Mike Davis.

SPEAKER_05 1:05

That sounds like it would be really peaceful.

SPEAKER_02 1:07

You would think that. Uh it's like a social history of the car bomb.

SPEAKER_05 1:11

That's not peaceful.

SPEAKER_02 1:12

It's not. It's um it's pretty interesting. It's about like the um the use of car bombs in various conflicts, how that affected those conflicts, as well as um he also gets into like the morale uh of using uh car bomb and how that affects like uh b population's morale. Um the fact that like that it kind of doesn't help their cause. Um it's pretty interesting. Uh I really enjoyed it. Um It kinda made me really interested in like really specific niche points of history.

SPEAKER_05 1:51

Like when they bomb things.

SPEAKER_02 1:52

Like when they bomb stuff, kind of.

SPEAKER_05 1:54

Like when they're bombs or in cars.

SPEAKER_02 1:57

Yeah, or like um like the history of like a particular like in this case, like a particular type of weapon, I think is interesting. Or um that kind of um specific point of rather than because a lot of times I'll read a history of like a specific geographical area, um, and so this kind of like jumps around because car bombs have been used all over the world. Um, so he jumps from like um you know, like Northern Ireland to like um Vietnam during the Vietnam War to like uh Israel during like the both the pre and post-Nakba um Lebanon. It's uh it's a lot of fun.

SPEAKER_05 2:44

Did you say something about Israel is fun?

SPEAKER_02 2:48

Yes. The history piece of it for sure.

SPEAKER_05 2:54

Oh my god, GC.

SPEAKER_02 2:56

Well, what have you been reading?

SPEAKER_05 2:59

I read a book and that was very uh exciting when it came out initially in 2025. It is called Behooved. The premise is what if you're a girl forced to get married to a prince, but the prince turns into a horse at night? It's kind of like um there was that show called My Lady Jane.

SPEAKER_02 3:19

Shrek. Oh, My Lady Jane.

SPEAKER_05 3:21

Shrek. My Lady Jane, uh, which only had one season, unfortunate. Uh the the the And the guy turns into a horse in that? At night, yeah. He's cursed. Um, and you know who's in that show? It's related to the book, kind of because they're both horses. Um Do you remember when I made you watch a Discovery of Witches and the Young Vampire?

SPEAKER_02 3:39

The Young Vampire, yes.

SPEAKER_05 3:40

The dark hair, the cute one?

SPEAKER_02 3:42

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_05 3:42

He turns into a horse.

SPEAKER_02 3:44

He turns into a horse in the horse cock.

SPEAKER_05 3:46

You know what I'm saying? Eh, yes, bitch.

SPEAKER_02 3:50

Do they have I don't know.

SPEAKER_05 3:51

I only got one episode in to be entirely fair.

SPEAKER_02 3:54

You only got one episode into the horsecock sex show?

SPEAKER_05 3:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:58

Do they have horsecock sex in the book?

SPEAKER_05 4:01

Uh no. What? I know! Why did I then read it? That's bullshit, dude. Girl, trust. I was really excited for some like eh, but no, it's kind of like it's cute. It's cute, but it's not like eh, you know what?

SPEAKER_00 4:13

That's not even uh.

SPEAKER_05 4:14

No, but it was a good um refresher in between all my disgusting shit, and I really enjoyed it. So, JC! Yes, what are we talking about this week?

SPEAKER_02 4:24

Today we are talking about Woman Down by one Mrs. Colleen Hoover. Mrs. Colleen. Mrs. Colleen.

SPEAKER_05 4:32

Uh JC. We're talking about Colleen Hoover today.

SPEAKER_02 4:35

Yes, yes, yes.

SPEAKER_05 4:36

That is kind of a controversial figure.

SPEAKER_02 4:39

I hadn't noticed. At no point does she talk about that in this book. Oh, Jesus Christ, I know that's a fucking lie.

SPEAKER_05 4:44

I I mmm. I think we should get it out here in the open right now. JC, what is your feelings on Colleen Hoover?

SPEAKER_02 4:51

Um, I read her book Layla before this. That's the only one I've read, which by understanding is it's kind of uh one of her weaker ones. Yep. For sure. Um it's not one of the big ins. It doesn't even have like a Wikipedia page. No. Um I I read Layla. I thought Layla was uh fine at best.

SPEAKER_03 5:14

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 5:15

Um I thought it was okay. Uh it's fine in the way that like I'll I didn't go into it thinking it it would be it would be good.

SPEAKER_05 5:28

Devastating beginning.

SPEAKER_02 5:30

So l like reading it, I wasn't like disappointed. I also just simply wasn't impressed. Again, to be fair to Mrs. Hoover, uh I I We can call her Colleen.

SPEAKER_05 5:43

We're on a first name basis at this point in time.

SPEAKER_02 5:45

Uh in fairness to to Koho, um, I didn't like give her a a wildly fair shake here. Um to to like wow me.

SPEAKER_06 5:56

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 5:56

Um, I saw the movie, uh, It Ends With Us, which is based on her book, It Ends With Us.

SPEAKER_05 6:02

Whoa, I have never heard of that one. Tell me about It Ends With Us.

SPEAKER_02 6:06

Um That's that's her that's her like big one that came out. I think it came out in like 2015, 2016.

SPEAKER_06 6:13

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 6:13

Um it's about uh that one's about like a woman and uh uh domestic violence. It's like based on her uh Wait, wait, wait.

SPEAKER_05 6:24

Has uh has Colin Hoover been domestically abused?

SPEAKER_02 6:28

No, it's Oh, so Stolen Valor. Sort of so it's her father, by my understanding, uh wasn't a b a domestic abuser. Um so it's kind of like uh a novel going through her feelings on like passing on that trauma.

SPEAKER_06 6:48

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 6:48

Um to m to me, my understanding of like a lot of the controversy is kind of just that the book's not good.

SPEAKER_06 6:59

Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:00

Just that the b the book isn't very good.

SPEAKER_06 7:02

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 7:03

Um my understanding of like a lot of the controversy before the movie. Like the like a lot of the hate isn't so much that Colleen Hoover depicted domestic violence poorly. Again, I haven't read it, so I don't know.

SPEAKER_06 7:18

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 7:18

Um it's more that the book sh Colleen Hoover writes, in my experience, Layla and Woman Down, in this very like rushed way. She she writes as if she's feeling a deadline.

SPEAKER_06 7:31

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 7:32

Um she writes in the same way that like um Thomas Harris, the guy who wrote Silence of the Lambs, uh, wrote the book uh Hannibal. Um where that book was like really rushed, and uh it turned out that uh he had basically written it like under the gun, like uh of his publisher being like, you have to finish up this book or you have to give your advance back. Um that's what uh every Colleen Hoover book I've read feels like. Like she's under the gun and she needs to get this book out.

SPEAKER_06 8:08

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 8:09

Um but to me, she is a fine writer. She's okay.

SPEAKER_06 8:19

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 8:20

Um and uh that's kind of what we're coming this I have I have a different opinion on this book than I do Layla, and we'll get to that later. Um but what's what do you what is your experience with Colleen Hoover? Have you read any of her stuff?

SPEAKER_05 8:40

Okay. No, I haven't, and I want you to know I am damn proud of that. I um, okay. I'm you I'm gonna tell you something, and it's gonna be honest, and it's gonna be scary, and it's gonna be hard for me to admit on the pod.

SPEAKER_00 8:54

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 8:55

I am and have always been a not like other girls girl.

SPEAKER_02 9:00

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 9:01

I hate when something's popular, and I'll like purposefully go against it. It's something I'm working on as an adult, as I think that's a really bad habit I picked up from my own family growing up where you had to be different. Uh, but I don't like things that are popular. So Colleen Hoover being incredibly popular.

SPEAKER_02 9:18

Isn't negative for you.

SPEAKER_05 9:19

Huge negative. Oh my god, huge. And I think now that I've fallen into and kind of accidentally created this really fun place for me to live of uh Monster Erotica, I just am not interested in uh like contemporary stuff, and I'm gonna be kind of honest with you, Colleen Hoover gives me the same vibes as like Taylor Swift. That's devastating, and Lululemon. Devastating and like Matcha.

SPEAKER_00 9:47

Sure.

SPEAKER_05 9:48

They all feel way more Christian than I am comfortable with.

SPEAKER_02 9:53

In in 2015, these all the this would have been you would have called her basic.

SPEAKER_05 9:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 9:58

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 9:59

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. They and they feel they feel very Christian, and I think A little. They feel very Christian.

SPEAKER_02 10:05

Uh yeah, and uh to me her books, I don't know Colleen Hoover's uh personal politics. Her books have f have like the to me, her books have like a conservative tinge to them.

SPEAKER_05 10:19

Yeah, and I think that's also something I don't really vibe with, so it immediately makes me be like, I don't know about that one.

SPEAKER_02 10:27

Um Well I would so I would describe Colleen Hoover's writing style as uh blunt.

SPEAKER_06 10:34

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 10:34

Um it's a lot of like short sentences, um it it's it's a lot of like very direct descriptions of things, it's you know, blank is blank, blank is blank, this is that. Um style of writing, which I don't think there's a problem with that. I think that can be done really well. Um but uh that's just kind of like what the feel of the book is like throughout this, is um it that's like the flow it has, as a very is a very blunt flow.

SPEAKER_06 11:06

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 11:07

Um Woman Down, and she has a a little um excerpt at the beginning to let you know this isn't based on anybody real and it isn't is uh isn't based in uh in in real life. It's the fictional novel.

SPEAKER_05 11:22

So please don't yell at me.

SPEAKER_02 11:23

Yeah. Uh Woman Down is about a Colleen Hoover style author.

SPEAKER_06 11:29

Beautiful.

SPEAKER_02 11:30

Who gets canceled. Um the book opens with a pod I was really worried this was gonna last a long time. Uh mercifully it only lasts a few pages. Uh, but the book opens with um an excerpt of a podcast uh between two hosts. Um they give their history with uh the Colleen Hoover stand-in, Petra Rose.

SPEAKER_05 11:59

What a chill normal name.

SPEAKER_02 12:01

And um their opinions on her books and the movie based on her most recent book, um it begins with them. I don't remember what the book is called.

SPEAKER_05 12:14

It begins with them. Something something you've never heard of before, something very subtle.

SPEAKER_02 12:20

Yeah, uh with Lake Blively and and uh Bustin Galdoni.

SPEAKER_05 12:28

Bustin? Boston Baldoni.

SPEAKER_02 12:30

Yeah. Jaldoni. Um it s uh it's a podcast talking about her and her recent controversies, um, which is that uh a movie was made of one of Petra Rose's books, and the movie cuts out one of the main characters. It's like a love triangle ass book, and the movie cut out one leg of the triangle. It's a love uh line now. No It's a love angle.

SPEAKER_05 13:01

Um Love Angles, you know what I'm saying? Aha fuck. Uh that was some communist humor for those who didn't catch on.

SPEAKER_02 13:08

Not the love angles.

SPEAKER_05 13:09

Yeah, you like that?

SPEAKER_02 13:10

Always. Um The sin of one of the characters gets fully cut from the movie is something that apparently fans of the books uh think that Petra Rose should be killed by Boko Haram. Is like this is how upset they are about this. Um people are mad because they showed up with their um uh uh team Team Edward, Team uh uh Oh fuck, I'm blinking. This is so embarrassing. Team Edward, Team Jacob? Jacob.

SPEAKER_05 13:44

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_02 13:45

Shut up, shut up, I guess we know what we have to watch later. Uh they show up with their team Edward, T Jacob, but there's no Jacob. Um and and so like the fans are like, oh my god. The podcast the this is how I know this is like a bad faith imagination of what like fans would be mad at you about is the podcasters are like the fact that the other guy wasn't there, so like the people with the Team Jacob shirts look stupid because there's no Jacob, and the people with the Team Edwards shirts make it seem like they're not Team Bella, but we're all Team Bella. And you're like, that's nothing.

SPEAKER_05 14:23

Ha ha, what a legitimate argument. That's definitely not made up for a shitty- I'm not allowed to say that, I'm sorry. It's not shitty, it's it's it's quirky. Oh, put a little hand over my mouth, silence a woman.

SPEAKER_02 14:35

This is uh this is someone's cup of tea.

SPEAKER_05 14:37

That's the worst part, is I really am trying to be not a yuck someone's yum, but goddamn is my natural inclination to just barf on something.

SPEAKER_02 14:46

Um so uh this the podcast is very funny. They mentioned they have 2,000 subscribers.

SPEAKER_05 14:54

That's not a lot.

SPEAKER_02 14:55

Yeah, uh actually that's quite a few, and we would love to get to 2,000.

SPEAKER_05 14:59

It's not a lot if you are like um what's his name? The shitty guy.

SPEAKER_02 15:04

The shitty guy. Oh, Joe Rogan.

SPEAKER_05 15:07

Joe Rogan, but you know, we want to be there, so But I want to be there.

SPEAKER_02 15:11

That's so many. Please, please subscribe. Uh like and subscribe.

SPEAKER_05 15:14

Like and uh ring the bell. Uh hit that link in bio.

SPEAKER_02 15:18

Link in bio. Um Pussy in Bio type shit.

SPEAKER_05 15:21

Not pussy in bio.

SPEAKER_02 15:23

There's pussy in bio if you're OnlyFans in Bio. If you subscribe.

SPEAKER_05 15:27

JC will show you whole.

SPEAKER_02 15:28

That's right. If you subscribe. If we get to 2,000, I'll show Hole.

SPEAKER_05 15:32

And it's worth saying.

SPEAKER_02 15:33

Jesus Christ. Um the they have on the producer for the movie, um, who again is just on this podcast with 2,000 subscribers to like clear the air. Um, he's like, oh, like Petra Rose was like kind of hard to work with. Um, I just think this is funny. That would be like if we got Justin Baldoni to come talk about this book.

SPEAKER_05 16:00

Justin Baldoni, come on the pod!

SPEAKER_02 16:02

Justin Baldoni, Blake Lively, come on the pod, we squash the beef, we talk about woman down.

SPEAKER_05 16:07

We squash the beef and talk about woman down.

SPEAKER_02 16:09

That's right. We'll talk we'll talk about the next naughty boy.

SPEAKER_05 16:12

Yeah, that's the move she goes to for everyone now, is next naughty boy is what they get.

unknown 16:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:18

I guess I guess I offered the next naughty boy to somebody else. We'll uh uh The one after that! Yeah the third naughty boy we'll talk about the next pretty little liars. Um uh we get the reveal uh this is nothing. It's uh the main character is like hate listening to a podcast shitting on her, which I think is really funny.

SPEAKER_05 16:38

That seems like a really toxic thing to do.

SPEAKER_02 16:40

Um Petra Rose is driving to a cabin where she goes as like a writer's retreat. Um it's up in I re I tried really hard to figure out where this would possibly be. I think this just has to be Tahoe.

SPEAKER_05 16:55

Yeah, that makes sense.

SPEAKER_02 16:57

Like approximately Tahoe. Um but she she goes to like a cabin, but this year there's like a big thing about the normal cabin she gets was like uh booked, so she had to get a different cabin. Uh who cares? Um she talks to her friend uh Nora um uh on the phone, and uh Nora gives us like uh exposition about uh uh Petra's vibe. Um she gets to the cabin and meets the landlord uh who owns the cabin and a bunch of other cabins around the lake, uh him and his wife together. Um the landlord's like, oh, like my wife knows about you. She recognized your name, put a pin in that.

SPEAKER_05 17:46

Uh JC's starting with his pins. Everyone, please get out yours and write down these. This is gonna be important. There will be a quiz at the end.

SPEAKER_02 17:54

There's gonna be a quiz. Um he's like, My wife recognized your name, and she wants to know why the character wasn't in the movie or whatever. And she's like, Ugh, I knew I sh I know I should have uh booked with a fake name. Um anyway, the landlord's wife is like introduced and then shows up later. Here the landlord's wife is my least favorite character, so I'm just going to drop all of her information here, and then I'm going to avoid talking about her as much as I can. Um, the landlord's wife's name is Mari. I don't remember the landlord's name. He doesn't matter for most of the book. Um The Landlord's wife's name is Mari. Uh Mari is like a 62-year-old woman with like orange hair, but it quote unquote works for her. Um, and uh, so which means that in my imagination, she looks like the aunt from Weapons. Um a reference you don't get, but somebody will.

SPEAKER_05 18:52

I d uh one of our handful of people of our 2,000 subscribers.

unknown 18:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:59

Um she's uh Mari's an actor in documentaries, um uh in like the reenactments, and Mari is like aggressively millennial style quirky. Um she's she says stuff like, um, huh, I might be an alcoholic, but I'm too old to stop now.

SPEAKER_05 19:20

Um That just means that you're dying of cirrhosis of the liver, by the way.

SPEAKER_02 19:24

Um uh Petra is constantly thinking about how uh she never knows what's gonna come out of Mari's mouth next.

SPEAKER_05 19:34

Um fun.

SPEAKER_02 19:37

Uh Mari uh loves being a landlord and hates working. Uh she says that several times. Uh which means I hate her. She's hence she's my least favorite character.

SPEAKER_05 19:48

Yeah, JC's anti-landlord.

SPEAKER_02 19:50

That's right. Um, yeah, uh sh she's she's just like, what if a boomer said hashtag random shit?

SPEAKER_05 19:57

I'm sorry. Uh is that an issue?

SPEAKER_02 20:01

For reading in a book? Yes.

SPEAKER_05 20:03

I okay. You know what? I get it, because when I read millennial humor in books, sometimes I have to put it down and walk away.

SPEAKER_02 20:08

Yeah, right. You're like, stop. You wrote this down. You wrote this down on a page and went, hell yeah, dude.

SPEAKER_05 20:13

You went, this eats, bitch.

SPEAKER_02 20:16

Um, Petra uh gets settled in. Um, she tries to write, she she can't get past just like writing the general vibe of two characters she's come up with, like, two years ago. Um. Petra has writer's block from uh being told to die in the Isis beheading videos, uh. And so she she like the stress of that has thrown her off her flow where her vibe used to be that she could crank out like a book a year. Um now it's been like three years and no new book has come out, and fans are like constantly asking her, like, how come you haven't written a new book and she doesn't know how to be like cause I can't write no more. She can't turn it she can't turn it back. The the faucet is off and she can't turn it back on.

SPEAKER_05 21:15

Okay, we've um we've talked about writer's block before. I want to bring that up now, recorded for all to hear.

SPEAKER_02 21:23

Okay.

SPEAKER_05 21:24

You once told me writer's block is bullshit.

SPEAKER_02 21:27

I I do kind of think it's bull I think it's kind of bullshit only because like no other job gets to do that.

SPEAKER_05 21:33

I have event block. I can't plan an event. Sorry, everyone.

SPEAKER_02 21:37

Like, I can't I'm not allowed to have like social work block. It's the only job where uh it's it's just like um because in the context of this conversation we had, I was talking about um uh George R. R. Martin.

SPEAKER_03 21:54

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 21:54

Um I I think the fact I first of all I don't believe he has writer's block. I think he's just I think he I think the ending of Game of Thrones came a lot closer to the ending that he imagined than he was willing to admit.

SPEAKER_05 22:07

And everyone fucking hated it.

SPEAKER_02 22:09

Yeah, and everyone hated it so much that he has to like scrap whatever he had and start over. Um but like it's that's bullshit, right? Like y no no no other job is allowed to be like, yeah, I guess I just won't work for a while.

SPEAKER_05 22:25

No, you you got it there. I uh I agree. I uh I it it writer's block isn't real, it's just you not doing your job.

SPEAKER_02 22:35

Um I mean like I I don't think it's not real. It more just that I think it's a situation where like you're just not working. Like you're your job is to write and you're not doing that, and I I feel for creatives who like can't just like find that flow state, but what I don't feel for is like writers like George R.R. Martin who just like never have to finish the story they started, and they get like a bunch of money from from this because it's famous, and therefore uh they just never have to finish it.

SPEAKER_05 23:17

I'm gonna be kinda honest with you. There are times where I know if I was an author, I would be doing exactly that because I'm a big person where if I make a single mistake in anything they ever do, I'm like throw it away and start all over again. We gotta just we gotta this one's not working.

SPEAKER_00 23:32

Scrap this.

SPEAKER_05 23:33

Scrap everything, I don't like how it feels.

SPEAKER_02 23:36

Umway, she gets a call from Nora again, and Nora's like, hey, we used to get on the live all the time and uh talk about like the writing process and engage with our fans meaningfully, and you haven't gotten on the live to engage with our fans in like three years. So what say you what say you? Let's hop on the live. Let's do let's hop on the the the Dr. Umar Snowbody Block Party.

SPEAKER_05 24:07

Okay, that might be a reference some people don't understand. You might need to explain that one.

SPEAKER_02 24:10

I will not. Uh um uh and and let's and let's t and let's chit-chat. Um so she hops on the live, and uh she she talks about like um what she has so far, which is just these two characters that she made up. Um and she she kind of waxes philosophical, I guess, about whether or not you can write about something that you haven't experienced. And and um I have a little excerpt here for you uh from the live from the Dr. Umar Snow Bunny Block Party.

SPEAKER_05 24:55

This is so gonna go over people. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 24:58

Dr. Dr. Umar is an Afrocentrist, he goes on the live, he loves going on the live, and he blocks people all the time, uh particularly white women, and he calls them snow bunnies, and he and he calls it uh uh join the block party and he blocks them. That's the reference. They're getting blocked on the s on the snowbunny block party.

SPEAKER_05 25:17

Oh my god, okay. Yeah, sure.

SPEAKER_02 25:23

I sigh, the familiar self-criticism rising to the surface. I'm my own worst critic. Or at least I used to be. She rolls her eyes at me, something she's done a hundred times when I get like this. Did you at least decide on characters' names yet? I did that get I did get that far. I shift in my chair, feeling a little proud of the progress, as small as it is. Cameron is the maid in love interest of the heroine. He goes by Cam. The heroine will be Rhea. Nora's eyes light up. Cam and Rhea, she says, testing the names out. I like those. Are they married or do we get a meat cube? Both, in a way. Cam is married, I say hesitantly. At least in the outline I wrote almost two years ago. Nora's eyebrows raises. Oh, unexpected. A triangle? I hesitate, glancing off screen for a moment as if the answer might be hiding somewhere in the shadows. I don't know. That's how I had planned it, but I might change it. You never know. No no no, Nora says, leaning forward toward the camera, her expression an animated betrayal. You know love triangles are my favorite. I want the triangle, she's whining now. I'm not sure. After the last one, I obviously took the criticism to heart. This book I'm writing was meant to be a love triangle also, even though it's very different in every way. But I've never been in a love triangle, and they say write what you know. Maybe that's where I went wrong with the last book. I guess I find it difficult writing something I've never experienced, I said. Nora lets out a laugh, a sharp burst of disbelief. Bullshit, she says. Your best selling novel was about a woman who fell in love with an ex-convict. You've never dated an ex-convict. Exactly, and several reviewers said it was unrealistic. Nora shakes her head. The look on her face, the mixture of exasperation and fondness. First of all, stop reading your negative reviews. Second, almost every negative review calls the books or the characters unrealistic. It's the go-to term for reviewers who didn't like something. I personally don't need every single thing in the book to be realistic. Dragons aren't realistic, but Fourth Wing is killing it in the chart.

SPEAKER_05 27:24

Not the Fourth Wing name drop!

SPEAKER_02 27:26

She name drops the fourth wing and Rebecca Yarrow specifically several times.

SPEAKER_05 27:31

Ew.

SPEAKER_02 27:32

Um, but the the gist of out of this is uh she she talks about that like she doesn't part of her block is coming out of she she's feeling unsure if she can write something she's never actually experienced. Um they answer some fan questions, she logs off, she goes to bed.

SPEAKER_06 27:52

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 27:53

She wakes up the next morning at 5 a.m.

SPEAKER_06 27:57

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 27:59

With flashing lights. Um she comes outside to check and see what's going on, and there's a police officer there, um, and he's like, hey, a guy just like killed himself in front of your cabin. Uh do you know that guy? And she's like Do you know him? She's like, no, but internally, she's like, yo, low-key, this cop is sexy as fuck.

SPEAKER_05 28:27

I could never think that.

SPEAKER_02 28:30

Hunky hunky cop alert.

SPEAKER_05 28:32

Ew. Girl.

SPEAKER_02 28:35

Um, and the characterization she came up with for her character Cam is that he's a hunky cop who's already married. So she's like, No, I don't know that suicide guy, but low-key, I'm a writer, and I would love to talk to you, R. E. cop stuff. And he's like, I'll see what I can do, queen. Um he leaves. Um she continues to uh have difficulty writing, she talks to Mari again just to confirm uh the suicide and that the the cop was hunky. Both of which are confirmed on Mari's side.

SPEAKER_06 29:21

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 29:24

Um so she texts him, she's like, hey, it's me, Petra, the writer.

SPEAKER_06 29:33

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 29:34

Uh, dear Mr. Hunky, um I'm a writer. Can you come over so I can ask you some questions about cop stuff? And he's like, Yeah, 100 all swing by after uh m my shift at the brutality factory.

SPEAKER_05 29:53

He You're right, you're right.

SPEAKER_02 29:56

He shows up, he like as he's like asking her questions about the book, he's like, What what exactly like do you need to know about cop stuff? And she's like, Well, my character is married, and he's like, I'm married, and she's like, that's that's so crazy. Um he's putting down during this conversation, he's putting down mad flirty vibes. And she's like, What's going on here? Um, and then they kiss, they uh they kiss on each other. Uh um and uh she's like, oh my god, I'm like Loki the other woman.

SPEAKER_05 30:38

Is she like excited about that?

SPEAKER_02 30:40

Kind of. She She does find it kind of titillating, for sure.

SPEAKER_05 30:45

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_02 30:46

Uh it's goofy.

SPEAKER_03 30:50

Let's say goofy.

SPEAKER_02 30:52

Um and then uh he leaves and he's like, ahaha, let me know if you have any other questions. R. E. cop stuff. And she's like, I'll let you know. Um this next piece I have here isn't really something about the book, it's just something she really low key reveals that I do kind of want to talk about here for a second.

SPEAKER_03 31:17

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 31:18

T she the character reveals that her name isn't Petra Rose. Okay. Oh. And she's like, uh, my fans don't know. I I only write I'm professionally known as Petra Rose, but I use my my personal name is Petra Rose Andrews to create like space between my public-facing life and my private life. Um then how did the then how did the landlord know you?

SPEAKER_05 31:47

So landlords be checking that. I Okay. Uh Okay. I have a lot of grace for plot holes and mistakes in books. When I read a lot, I read a lot of indie publishers, right? So they don't have like a lot of uh official, you know, multi-billion dollar backers that are gonna send that thing through multiple editors.

SPEAKER_01 32:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 32:12

So I tend to come with a lot of uh leeway and forgiveness. Grace Colleen Hoover does not publish independently.

SPEAKER_02 32:21

Oh no.

SPEAKER_05 32:23

FIX it!

SPEAKER_02 32:25

Um, it just it it this doesn't like come back. The fact that her name is Petra Andrews isn't something that like is important for later. It's just something the character randomly thinks. I even had to look up. I was like, is that like is Colleen Hoover not her real name? Um and I mean I guess to be fair, for the canon of the book, I there's no way I would be able to tell on like her wiki page. Um but it's just something that like is in the book and doesn't try you like like I said, how would how does the landlord know that you're the author, you're the you're the recently cancelled author. Um anyway, uh she texts the cop again, because like of of course. Um they he like comes over a couple more times, uh they kiss pretty much every time.

SPEAKER_05 33:24

Uh seems inappropriate.

SPEAKER_02 33:26

Uh then he he's like, let's the whole time he's like talking about she like asks him, they'll like kiss and she'll ask him, like, how does this make you feel as a cheater, as an adulterer, how do you feel right now? And he'll be like, oh like it's it's like I have like a really hard time with my wife, you know, like um he'll like he's been like revealing stuff about like his um him and his wife's relationship while they're like kissing and stuff, and he'll be like, Oh, like my my wife wanted a child, but we learned that I'm I'm the one that can't have a child and I'm like sterile and shit, and so uh like our our marriage is like on the rocks because um I can't I can't pump a baby into her beautiful womb.

SPEAKER_05 34:19

I don't like how you said that. Um I just want to put that out there. Uh I cannot imagine the dick shrinking that would occur if I was balls deep at a bitch and she's like, How do you feel about cheating on your wife right now? I'd be like, hey!

SPEAKER_02 34:40

Stop.

SPEAKER_05 34:40

Hey, if we could not talk about that.

SPEAKER_02 34:43

Maybe it's like a Catholic guilt thing where like it kind of makes hotter? Yeah, it makes it hotter. Yeah, call me a cheater. Call me an adulterer.

SPEAKER_05 34:51

Balls deep with a cop who's cheating. Could there be anything that makes a pussy dryer?

SPEAKER_02 34:56

A cheating cop.

SPEAKER_05 34:57

A cheating cop.

SPEAKER_02 34:59

Right? Um, so he's like, let's go on a date.

SPEAKER_05 35:03

Girl! Um The audacity of this man.

SPEAKER_02 35:07

He's like, let's go on a date.

SPEAKER_05 35:08

What's the cop's name?

SPEAKER_02 35:10

Uh oh, I never said actually. Thank you. Uh his name is Nathaniel Saint, but he goes by Saint the whole book.

SPEAKER_05 35:18

Huh. One point in time when JC and I were dating, I was like, I want to talk about baby names I like, and I said the name Atlas, and JC immediately went, ha! Like the Colleen Hoover book.

SPEAKER_02 35:30

Like the Colleen Hoover book.

SPEAKER_05 35:31

That's absurd. Every book name she has is absurd. And so now every single time Colleen Hoover says any name, even if it's like Nathaniel, I'm like, all I can imagine is JC smugly being like, ha!

SPEAKER_02 35:44

Like the Colleen Hoover book?

SPEAKER_05 35:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 35:47

Um They go on a date.

SPEAKER_05 35:49

If my last name was Saint, I would also only go by Saint.

SPEAKER_02 35:52

That's true. Yeah. Especially if your first name is Nathaniel.

SPEAKER_05 35:56

Nate is not a good name.

SPEAKER_02 35:57

Nate Saint.

SPEAKER_05 35:58

Sorry, Nate. Um. I knew a girl in school whose last name is Darling.

SPEAKER_02 36:04

Nice.

SPEAKER_05 36:04

I was so jealous. I was so insanely jealous. I was like, I want my last name to be Darling. So bad. But that was it's not for me.

SPEAKER_02 36:14

It's not for you.

SPEAKER_05 36:15

I feel like you have to be born beautiful to have that be your last name.

SPEAKER_02 36:18

Yeah, for sure. You have to be born like at least cute, like at least cute as a button vibe.

SPEAKER_05 36:25

I want you to all hear about how JC just subtly told me I was an uggo, but I didn't say you were an uggo.

SPEAKER_02 36:30

I said if you have the name Darling, you gotta be at least cute as a button. Obviously the answer should have been- Your surname is not Darling.

SPEAKER_05 36:36

Obviously, you could have been like, yeah, you would have fit that last name beautifully, but you didn't!

SPEAKER_02 36:40

And you would have fit that last name beautifully.

SPEAKER_05 36:41

Too late. You're oh you know what? Get back to this cheating cop. He seems nice.

SPEAKER_02 36:46

They go on they go on a date. He seems nice. Uh they go on a date, they go on a date to like a dive bar that serves burgers.

SPEAKER_05 36:54

That's insane!

SPEAKER_02 36:56

In like the small ass town.

SPEAKER_05 36:58

Oh my god. A dive bar that serves a burger. That feels like someone being like, oh, let me take up for a good time, baby girl, and they take you to the local waffle house.

SPEAKER_02 37:06

It well, I mean, like what it is is like it feels like It feels like the seediest place you could take your paramore.

SPEAKER_05 37:16

A dive bar that serves burgers.

SPEAKER_02 37:18

Yeah, you wanna have a burger, you wanna have a burger that's for sure microwaved.

SPEAKER_05 37:23

I bet she eats it up though.

SPEAKER_02 37:25

Oh, you know she does. You you know she does. And she doesn't uh so they they go. He does what I think is the m easily the most embarrassing thing. And he he does this throughout the book, um, but he like really leans into it here. Which is he shows up and he's referring to Petra as the name with the name Rea.

SPEAKER_05 37:49

Which, as you remember, is the character from the book. We get a callback.

SPEAKER_02 37:52

Oh, call back. Um, and she's like, Saint, what are you doing? And he's like, Saint, uh no Saint here, my name's Cam. Um, and then he like starts to roleplay as the characters from her book, so she can like flesh out this dialogue. Um it at no point does it feel uh like something that would be like exciting. Uh it feels like someone trying to do like um it feels like someone trying to do improv, but like one of them's only half committed to the bit.

SPEAKER_05 38:29

Which one's half committed to the bit, him or her?

SPEAKER_02 38:31

Petra keeps falling out of it. She keeps falling out of character. She keeps she keeps trying to ask him questions about himself, but he's like answering as Cam.

SPEAKER_05 38:40

And No one can tell what I just did because we are a sound-only audio, it's audio only, but my eyes just got so big in the biggest ick of my life.

SPEAKER_02 38:48

It's so wag. Ew.

SPEAKER_05 38:52

A cop who does improv cheats, dude, it keeps getting worse.

SPEAKER_02 38:58

Only red flags. Um, so he has like a um eventually she does kind of like get him to break. At one point, Cam, but also like kind of saint, uh, it is like, uh, oh, can we actually eat our disgusting microwave burgers uh in my in my car, um, because like we're still in town and people who know my wife might be here. And so they they spend the rest of the date in his car.

SPEAKER_05 39:29

I went on a date like this when I was like 17. Oh my god, the war flashbacks.

SPEAKER_02 39:36

Holy shit. Um She thinks this is she thinks like a good chunk of this is like kind of mad exciting.

SPEAKER_05 39:44

Um This woman and maybe Colin Hoover needed to be in an abusive relationship in high school way more.

SPEAKER_02 39:50

They yeah, they needed to date way shittier dudes.

SPEAKER_05 39:53

Dudes who really liked cars.

SPEAKER_02 39:56

Um Petra slash Rea asks Cl Cam slash Saint. Again, like she's asking him more about like his wife and about like how he feels, and she's fleshing out this character, and um, she does eventually get him to break character. It ta it takes so long in the chapter.

SPEAKER_05 40:15

I bet you really like this book with how long this bit goes on. I bet this made you feel amazing. I bet you were like, I love improv.

SPEAKER_02 40:23

I I was kind of like flipping through this. I was like, come on.

SPEAKER_05 40:25

JC does his thing where he doesn't admit to it on these podcasts, but I watch him sometimes where he'll like read a page and he'll be like and then it'll skip three forward and check if that storyline's still happening, and if AC skips three more.

SPEAKER_02 40:39

It I don't I don't need more of this. I I get the I get the picture. Um I get what's happening. I do read it. I'm j uh I'm reading it much faster than I I would something I like.

SPEAKER_05 40:52

You're reading it like children read textbooks where they're like, Yeah, yeah, yeah, kinda.

SPEAKER_02 40:56

Uh alright, yeah. Um, and so uh oh, so Saint starts asking Petra, like what happens in the book? Like, what are you thinking is happening? Because while while they've been talking, every time they like talk or like kiss or whatever, every kiss imbues Petra with writing inspiration. She's getting like mad cheesy about this. She's like she's writing like a fiend in a way she hasn't in several years. Um, and so he's like, Okay, like what have you been thinking? Like, what happens next? And she's like, Okay, I'm thinking like Raya is like a so Raya's like a a law stud. She's like recently graduated from law school, and um uh she she's like working on like a case that um is dangerous, and Cam has try has to try to keep her safe, um, and he's like, try, so he doesn't keep her safe, and she's like, not all the time. She has the files, and someone breaks into her house to try to find the files, and they tie her up, and during the scuffle, they break her arm. And he's like, interesting. Um, flash forward, um, the date ends, he drops her back off of the cabin, and uh she wakes up in the middle of the night, and somebody's in the room, and they drag her out of bed, uh, kind of rough her up a little bit, uh, and then tie her up to a chair in the middle of the kitchen, and then leave. Um, and she's like that for like a few hours, it seems. She's like struggling to get out. She um bruises herself on the ropes, uh, eventually uh squeezing her way out. Um, and then as she does, Saint shows up and he's like, Oh my god! Yo, this is so crazy. Who could have done this? And she's like, it was obviously you. Like, are you kidding me, dude?

SPEAKER_05 42:55

Okay, I need to put a pick quick pause on this bitch. What is she assuming this cop's relationship is to her before? Like, does she think that this cop knows that she's a like the famous writer?

SPEAKER_02 43:08

So he he's like, I don't know you as a writer, but like I like you and you talk to me. Uh I like helping you with the writing process and um kissing you and going on dates with you and stuff, is your telling me is helping you with the writing process, and you're telling me that it's kind of helping you write when I act out the character for you.

SPEAKER_05 43:32

I w if lack of self-preservation. Um as a famous writer who I mean, let's just call let's just call it what it is, right? Uh this character is a very clear stand in for Colleen Hoover.

SPEAKER_02 43:48

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 43:48

Uh after the absolute fucking shit show that was the This Is Us movie and this it ends with us.

SPEAKER_02 43:55

This is This Is Us is the uh the drama television show.

SPEAKER_05 44:00

Whatever. They all got the same energy.

SPEAKER_02 44:02

Same thing.

SPEAKER_05 44:02

When the This Ends With Us drama debacle surrounding that movie came out, this is clearly what she wrote because she, you know, is like that.

SPEAKER_03 44:11

For sure.

SPEAKER_05 44:13

And if this woman is a stand-in for Colleen Hoover, now I might not know what she looked like. I know she's blonde.

SPEAKER_02 44:20

Yes. She's blonde.

SPEAKER_05 44:22

I can tell with the energy she brings to the club. Uh dis to all the blonde bitches out there. Sorry, girls. Um, not sorry to any boys, blonde men are weird. Anyway, big facts as my blonde husband. Um if someone came in and Colleen Hoover was like, my name is Colleen Boover, I'd be like, yeah, okay. And like you would know who they are, right? Like, authors aren't so anonymous that like you can't figure out who they are. And the fact that this cop who quote unquote allegedly doesn't know her is like, tell me what happens next. Let's roleplay. Let's do this. It's roleplay. What happens next? Girl, that's an obsessed fan. Girl, to pretend like it's not because he lied and said he doesn't know you. Do you also believe it when people say they totally aren't gonna hurt you? Like, no, trust, I need to hold your purse for safety reasons. Girl, what?

SPEAKER_02 45:15

I would never hurt you.

SPEAKER_05 45:17

Uh anyway, uh And yet she wasn't in an abusive relationship in high school? Oh, excuse me.

SPEAKER_02 45:22

Anyway, uh, he shows up, she's like, This was obviously you. Uh I don't want you to do this to me. I don't want this to be happening. This is way too far. This was a lot. And he's like, I thought you wanted me to. And she's like, Why would I want this?

SPEAKER_05 45:39

Because it's an obsessed fan!

SPEAKER_02 45:40

And he goes, Oh, because we we've been roleplaying, and then you told me what happens in the book and you it was this. So I just thought, like, you wanted me to do this so you could like live it. And she's like, Okay, I don't want to live the dangerous parts of the book. I only want to live the hot love triangle stuff where the other leg of the triangle is your wife.

SPEAKER_05 45:58

Yeah, you know what? I bet you do, Bollywood. Hollen Coover?

SPEAKER_02 46:06

Uh anyway, and then he seduces her with his huge penis.

SPEAKER_05 46:09

How big is his penis?

SPEAKER_02 46:10

Um, she never actually I mean, she's not putting numbers on it. Uh, which I think correctly, only because if you put numbers on it, you have to like admit either what you think is huge, or so massive that it's just not believable.

SPEAKER_05 46:26

Do you get any references to how big his penar is?

SPEAKER_02 46:29

Uh big enough to hurt is how she puts it. Big enough to hurt in a good way.

SPEAKER_05 46:35

That is the ultimate, like, way to describe a penis in books like 11. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 46:39

Because then you don't have to like I said, then you don't have to like really give.

SPEAKER_05 46:42

Also, like it's kind of weird to like her vaginal cavity measured approximately.

SPEAKER_02 46:48

Yeah, it's it would it would be weird to like give like full stats on the wiener.

SPEAKER_05 46:54

She's I love a good stat on a wiener.

SPEAKER_02 46:56

She's like 11 inches long, seven inches thick.

SPEAKER_05 46:59

Too big, too big. Um, you know what I learned recently?

SPEAKER_02 47:03

What's that?

SPEAKER_05 47:03

I learned about how each vagina shapes slightly differently. There's an artist that does like an internal vaginal mold and like has an art collection of them. Did not realize. I mean, like, I knew like every vagina is special and different, but like, damn.

SPEAKER_02 47:16

And they're all beautiful.

SPEAKER_05 47:18

Shut up!

SPEAKER_02 47:19

I just want to be clear that I think that.

SPEAKER_05 47:22

You're not you're not out here, like pussies is weird. JC, do you think you could accurately draw what my my internal cooter feels like?

SPEAKER_02 47:30

Uh no. I don't think I'm I guess we're not married anymore. Not for lack of familiarity, for lack of artistic talent.

SPEAKER_05 47:42

You know what? I need a new artistic man. Uh artistic man, call it to the pod.

SPEAKER_02 47:46

Yeah, come on the pod. We'll talk about one of Chloe's books, I guess.

unknown 47:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 47:52

We'll talk about the next three Karlova Kanowska books.

SPEAKER_05 47:56

Drawing a oh my god, police sketch of a vagina. And how would you describe the lady of menorah?

SPEAKER_02 48:05

Yeah, what color was the clerics?

SPEAKER_05 48:07

Would you just say it was heavily hooded or lightly hooded?

SPEAKER_02 48:10

Um, anyway, he fucks the shit out of her. He he he fucks he fucks this woman silly.

SPEAKER_05 48:19

Um, but I need more details than that. Is it like in a bed? Is it like on the floor?

SPEAKER_02 48:25

They're in the they they end up in the in the boudoir for sure.

SPEAKER_05 48:28

They end up in the boudoir.

SPEAKER_02 48:29

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 48:30

Boudoir sex is is vanilla sex.

SPEAKER_02 48:32

Uh it's fine. Whatever.

SPEAKER_05 48:34

Okay, calm down, balling boover.

SPEAKER_02 48:37

Um, yeah, this is my I'm Colleen Hoover. Um, anyway, uh she wakes up and she catches Saint leaving. She's like, oh, he was trying to leave without saying goodbye, and so she gets in her car and she follows him.

SPEAKER_05 48:53

Oh girly pop, you're the other woman. You don't get niceties like other people do.

SPEAKER_02 48:58

Um because she wants to like see where he lives, she wants to see his life because he comes because they're there their relationship is that he comes into her life and then um gives her that good good, and then he goes back to his uh ordinary domesticity.

SPEAKER_05 49:15

Yes, that's how it works if you're the other woman.

SPEAKER_02 49:18

If you're the other woman, yeah, for sure. That's my understanding is that's kind of the draw. That's kind of what you want.

SPEAKER_05 49:23

It's kind of the social contract of being the other bitch.

SPEAKER_02 49:27

Um anyway, he immediately catches her.

SPEAKER_05 49:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 49:31

He he's like, Yeah, I saw your car, you were like following me from very close. Um, so he like pull he like pulls over into the shoulder, he like makes her pull into the shoulder with him. He's like, You don't get to follow me, you don't get to see my life. Uh he uh picks her up and he sets her down on the hood of his car and then finger blasts her on the side of the highway.

SPEAKER_05 49:53

Like a busy highway or like a like a like a like a country highway. Oh, that's fine.

SPEAKER_02 49:58

I mean, you're I'm sh I'm almost positive that they thought 5 a.m. was early earlier in the book.

SPEAKER_05 50:05

Oh, Colin Hoover doesn't have a real job.

SPEAKER_02 50:08

Like they they thought 5 a.m. was like impossibly early, um, which the day I read this book, by the way, really pissed me off because I woke up for work at 4 a.m. and so I was like It was like 5 a.m. I'm on the train and I was like, fuck you. Fuck this bullshit. How fucking dare you think 5 a.m. is impossibly early? Um, so but so like they if they think 5 a.m. is impossibly early, it's like 8 a.m. on this highway. Like people are driving by watching her uh see god.

SPEAKER_05 50:41

I think if you finger blast someone before sunset, you probably need to go to rehab.

SPEAKER_02 50:49

Um anyway, then she goes home and she um gets back to writing. She she's a she's a fiend for writing. Um then my favorite of all the twists of this book, my favorite and the one that feels the pardon my frankness here, dumbest to me uh happens where she hears a car pull up and she's like, Oh my god, it's Saints back. Usually, like his his MO is to have like a really intense time with her for like a day, and then give her like a day off to write. And he comes back and he gives her like a really intense time, and then he gives her a day off to write. Um and so she's like, Oh my god, he was here yesterday. Uh he finger blasted me on the side of uh Highway 112 yesterday, uh, and he's back again, and she looks and she goes, Oh my god, Shepard's here. And I don't know who this is.

SPEAKER_05 51:44

It's a stupid name, that's what it is.

SPEAKER_02 51:46

Um But this is the reveal, spoiler alert for a woman down. Um, this is her husband, and he has brought their two daughters. Um this is a twist that makes me feel like this book is just being written free association style. Um, like there's there's just like no circling back and like foreshadowing this, there's no like, okay. She's married. We know that now. That makes every conversation she's had with Saint on like you're kissing me and you're married, how does that feel? Girl, why are you asking? You're married. How do you feel right now?

SPEAKER_05 52:30

Okay, how many does Colleen Hoover have children?

SPEAKER_02 52:33

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 52:33

Does she have girls or boys?

SPEAKER_02 52:35

I do not I don't know that much about her like that.

SPEAKER_05 52:38

How good for you. I would say, and this is why I ask, uh Colleen Hoover, and thereby this character feels like they would cry hysterically if they found out they were having girls instead of boys.

SPEAKER_01 52:47

Yeah, right, kinda.

SPEAKER_05 52:48

Maybe desperate boy moms. I just feel like I'm a boy mom on the inside.

SPEAKER_02 52:54

Um like to like it it's just one of these moments where it's like, do you not care about cheating? Like, why is why is Saints cheating the only thing you're interested in and not your cheating? Like, up until this moment she has had no real guilty thoughts or feelings about I mean she's by this point she's fully had sex with him. They've had like a public sexual experience. He finger blasted her on the side of the highway. Um like it just kind of implies to me that she just sort of doesn't feel bad about cheating on her husband.

SPEAKER_05 53:31

How could you feel bad about cheating on someone with the name Shepard?

SPEAKER_02 53:35

Um The other thing that really pisses me off about this twist is, and I reference this in the Pretty Little Liars episode, my least favorite plot device is a book where in order for a twist to make sense, a character has to be actively not thinking about it. Like they are thinking actively deceptive thoughts in order to deceive nobody but me, the reader.

SPEAKER_05 54:04

Wrong. They're trying to fool their inner self.

SPEAKER_02 54:07

She's trying not to think about the fact that she's married and has daughters.

SPEAKER_05 54:11

So stupid.

SPEAKER_02 54:13

Um, she's like, oh my god, she runs inside, uh, she texts Saint, she's like, uh, Loki, don't come here, and he's like, is everything okay? And she's like, yeah, my fucking family is here.

SPEAKER_05 54:26

Um She says about her husband and two children. My fucking family.

SPEAKER_02 54:33

Uh anyway, then Saint shows up.

SPEAKER_05 54:35

Uh Hell yeah, that's a messy bitch.

SPEAKER_02 54:39

Uh he shows up, he's like, You don't have the right parking permits to park here, and the husband is like, I I didn't know I've we've been coming to the this lake um for my wife's riding retreats for years now, and there's been never been anything about parking permits. And he's like, It's new, and you don't have them. And he's like, Well, my wife doesn't either. And she's like, I have them, they're just inside. And the and Saint is like, That's good enough for me, sir. Are yours inside? And he's like, Well, obviously not, I just got here, and it's like, Shepard, lie. Tell a lie.

SPEAKER_05 55:14

Shepard can't lie, he's too good.

SPEAKER_02 55:16

He's too good for this one.

SPEAKER_05 55:17

You name Shepard, because he's the Shepherd of the flock of the Lord, you know? This is Jesus.

SPEAKER_02 55:22

This is kind of Jesus.

SPEAKER_05 55:23

Yeah. That's why he's so cool and based.

SPEAKER_02 55:26

Uh the uh Saint just like menaces Shepherd a bunch and then leaves. Um, and then they uh they all go back inside. Um at one point they have they eat chicken, and uh Petra describes his chicken as perfectly seasoned, which is the most unrealistic part of this book. Is that a man named Shepard has ever seasoned chicken perfectly.

SPEAKER_05 55:51

It's seasoned with flour, leave him alone.

unknown 55:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 55:55

It's too spicy otherwise.

SPEAKER_02 55:57

Yeah, he did like the salt base style salt on it.

SPEAKER_05 56:00

Oh, Jesus, okay.

SPEAKER_02 56:02

Um and then they have the funniest argument I've ever had the pleasure of reading.

SPEAKER_05 56:08

But not the funniest one you've ever had.

SPEAKER_02 56:12

Oh no.

SPEAKER_05 56:13

Call the JC out!

SPEAKER_02 56:14

No, I've had much funnier arguments.

SPEAKER_05 56:16

Um, what's this argument? What's his argument?

SPEAKER_02 56:18

Um, so he's like, hey, um, I have a meeting with the uh with our accountant coming up, and she Do you know how wealthy you have to be to have an accountant? Jesus Christ. To have an accountant and not just like a random woman at HR block.

SPEAKER_05 56:33

To not just do it yourself.

unknown 56:35

Right.

SPEAKER_02 56:36

Um, but so uh he's like, can you look over some numbers for me? And she's like, No, I don't want to. And he's like Big JC energy. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 56:47

Big JC energy.

SPEAKER_02 56:49

Yeah, she's right for this. No, looking over tax shit sucks, and I'm not doing it. No, cirl I don't know. Nobody can make me.

unknown 56:56

I know.

SPEAKER_02 56:58

Um, so she's like, no, I don't want to. That shit sucks. Um, and uh you can't make me. Um and Shefford says, I wrote it all down uh just because there's so this argument is a rich text.

SPEAKER_05 57:14

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_02 57:20

She also so she implies that like the main reason she doesn't want to is that she's like busy.

SPEAKER_05 57:26

Right.

SPEAKER_02 57:26

Um Shepard implies that she isn't making any money because she hasn't been writing for the last couple years, and uh kind of implies that they are almost out of money. Put a pen in that. She says that uh she could write better if you weren't there and hadn't brought the girls. Uh she tells them that she can't turn the creativity on and off like a spigot. Um he tells her that her job is easy, he works a nine to five office spreadsheets job, and she could never understand how hard his job is.

SPEAKER_05 57:56

Okay, first of all, that is correct because she can't wake up early.

SPEAKER_02 57:59

Put a pen in that. Um and then he adds that she comes to this amazing cabin for weeks and gets to enjoy herself while he stays at home working and doing all the domestic labor. Uh she says that is not true. He could never understand her work, and she has been working very hard and getting a lot of writing done. Uh put a big old pin in that one.

SPEAKER_05 58:18

Put a big pen in it.

SPEAKER_02 58:19

Um Shepard calls her a bitch, which they both realize is a step too far, and basically stop fighting.

SPEAKER_05 58:26

Um I would call her many nastier things.

SPEAKER_02 58:30

Let me return to these pins. Uh pin number one, he says they're almost out of money. How? She wrote she came out with a book, her last book came out three years ago, and um in the meantime, she's one of her books has been turned into a a movie.

SPEAKER_05 58:48

Yeah, to paper to get the rights for that would be really expensive.

SPEAKER_02 58:51

It would be really expensive, plus like you must assume that she to some extent uh got like some kind of money for this and like and the release.

SPEAKER_05 59:02

And the writing credits, she would likely be brought on as a writer as well.

SPEAKER_02 59:05

Yeah. She uh she she does mention that she's like part of like the produ production writing team.

SPEAKER_05 59:12

Yeah. Um She's too busy spending it on Saint Bitch or whatever.

SPEAKER_02 59:18

Um so like how is this money almost gone that they have? Also, her husband has a job. He has like a like I said, he has like a nine to five off salaried office spreadsheets job. Um she does mention that like he had a higher paying job at one point, but because she was writing so much and making a bunch of money from book sales, that uh he basically took like a a voluntary demotion so he could work a job that pays less but isn't quite so stressful.

SPEAKER_06 59:49

Uh okay.

SPEAKER_02 59:51

So like how so like they have like where what's his money been going to? Like that should be 100% going into like savings.

SPEAKER_05 59:59

Yeah, 100%. Like, oh god.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:02

Um, pin number two. Um, Shepard, be really careful here. Uh spreadsheets are not difficult. You're being dramatic.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:12

Spreadsheets aren't difficult, but I would like to say if Colleen Hoover thinks 8 a.m. is early, she would be incapable of a job. I'm just calling this character Colleen Hoover. Because that is just that's not early. That's most office jobs want you in office at that time.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:27

Um Pin number three, um, which again is that uh his accusation that uh she's basically her on vacation and she's like, I've been getting a lot of work done. She's been getting fucked! She's been getting fucked, she's been having an affair. At one point earlier in the book, they go on like a beautiful sail around the lake and they have sex on the boat.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:51

Okay, but like, do you know how hard it is to like pretend you're enjoying sex as a woman? That's like a whole job. She's over here going, ooh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:00

Oh hell yeah. Yeah, she's this is vacation. She's been just be this is a vacation where she's been getting work done.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:07

That's just a normal day for uh most bitches.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:09

Yeah, Shepard has accidentally stumbled into a very good argument. He just doesn't know it.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:15

Yeah, I uh I side with him. I'm siding with Shepard, I'm siding with our Lord Jesus over here.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:20

She she has functionally saddled him with domesticity so she could leave and get railed by uh by by a cop.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:29

You've read is this your second Colin Hoover or your third Colin Hoover?

SPEAKER_02 1:01:32

This is my second.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:33

The the Colleen Hoover books always have this kind of very strange first uh like the opening of the third act always has something like this.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:42

Where you kind of like go from being like, okay, well, maybe they're not that bad of a character, to they they reveal something and makes you go, oh Jesus.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:49

Yeah, right, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:50

And like I think like Colin Hoover thinks it makes characters like dark and like complex, but I think in reality all it does is really wash away any natural empathy or like um like relatability you find in a character. You know? Because like it's one thing to be like, oh I'm the other woman and I'm using this for writing and blah blah blah, but once you're like, fuck my kids, fuck my husband, I'm gonna get fucked and you guys can shove it, it kind of makes you go, oh wait a fucking minute.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:16

And and like I know some people like like characters that are unlikable, but I think it's strange to intentionally sabotage that every single book.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:02:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:29

Um so the their fight ends. Um, he's like, sounds good, I'm gonna go get in the shower, and she's like, Sounds good, I'll meet you there. No, you won't. And then she runs out the back door and calls Saint, and she's like, Hey, what the fuck was that earlier? And he's like, Yeah, I bet you liked that. And she was like, I did it. Uh and he goes, Are you gonna fuck your husband? And she's like, I don't know, probably. And he goes, Well, when when when you fuck him, jump on top and then think about me.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:06

Alright.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:08

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:09

Alright.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:10

Um, so she does exactly that.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:13

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:14

Um, first of all, I want to throw out there. Shepard's way of initiating sex is really funny to me, because it's mostly um they'll they're sitting in bed, he's he's like, he keeps like showing her TikToks.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:25

Chasey shit.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:26

He's like, check this one out.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:27

Chasey shit.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:28

Uh, and then when he decides it's it's fuck time, uh, she's like on her phone and he just like grabs her phone and throws it away.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:36

That's my move. That's my move.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:39

Um, yeah, uh pay pay attention to me, type shit.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:41

Pay attention to me, type shit.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:43

Um, so he uh grabs her phone, he throws it away, uh they start having sex, she hops on top, um, and um rides him, and she thinks about Saint the whole time. She imagines that he uh she's fucking Saint Um and she's about to come, and she opens her eyes, and Saint is uh at the window peering in. And she's like, oh my god. Um and I I love this moment. This is so funny to me. Just like imagining him like at the window looking inside like a cold cuck.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:17

Bring your cucks inside. If you're cold, they're cold. It's so it's so funny to be imagining it.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:27

I like the idea of him not just standing there, but like standing there with his face pressed up against the gallery to like shade the sun out.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:34

Yeah, he's like peering in.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:37

Uh uh, but yeah, so then um she gives she gives um she gives her good little cuck a show.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:44

Um and and she Don't say her good little cuck, that's disgusting.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:48

She comes she comes on her husband. Ugh! Um they fall asleep. You assume that at some point St. just leaves.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:54

He's still there.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:56

There all night, just watching them sleep.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:58

He's shivering, he's he's crying at the window like the dog went, ah he's scratching at the window.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:05

Um He uh uh she wakes up the next morning and um uh I it turns out Sha uh Shepard and just brought their daughters there just for like overnight, just to like see her. Uh just they're like he was like, just in case you were having a story and um I needed to like uh uh create like a twist and some conflict, uh I c I showed up with our daughters just in case.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:28

Perfect. Yeah, he said I felt like his I was needed ear.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:30

Yeah, I felt I felt a call in the force. Um so he's like, uh don't forget, uh our daughter our older daughter's birthday party is next weekend.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:40

Jesus Christ.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:41

Um and uh you said you would come down for that, and she's like, I will, beautiful. Um and then uh and then he leaves.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:51

Nice.

SPEAKER_02 1:05:51

Um he's like, Alright, uh I'll I'll go away for another week, uh, just in case you have anything you're up to for a week. Uh and then Saint shows up. Up and uh s Saint shows up with like an intense energy and he like grabs her uh and he makes her get in the shower, uh, he pulls her into the shower and he turns on the water and he immediately starts spraying her pussy, and she's like, What are you doing?

SPEAKER_05 1:06:16

And he goes, 'I'm washing out your cunt so I can eat it.' If you're not willing to eat another man's cum out of that woman's vagina, you don't love her.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:26

You are not obsessed like that.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:28

You are not into it.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:30

You are not into it. Uh, anyway.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:34

That's that's you know what that is?

SPEAKER_02 1:06:36

What's that?

SPEAKER_05 1:06:36

Compulsive heteronormativity.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:38

Compulsive heteronormativity.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:39

Eat the cum.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:40

Eat his cum. Eat his cum out of her pussy.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:42

If you mm mm mm-mm mm-mm. Monster erotica would never yum yum yum cum and pussy. I'm not laughing at that one. I want you to sit there in silence and think about that.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:54

Think about what you've done.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:55

Yeah, seriously.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:57

Um so they they have another week's worth of uh sex and kisses and stuff. And writing, and sex and kisses. Um uh every time I say like they've been kissing and stuff, imagine they're like the the there's like two more at least two more scenes of them having uh embarrassing roleplay as the characters from her book. Uh she's getting so much writing done. Uh she goes to her she uh drives home uh for her daughter's birthday. Uh the vibes of the birthday party are fucked to me, only because uh there there's no like clear vibe like what's the theme to the party? Uh it's not clear. Shepard is slightly drunk and playing football with his friend who also came to this child's birthday party for some reason.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:46

Uh, I'm sorry, that's gangster shit.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:49

Um but uh she's hanging out watching the fun and festivities, and then she looks down the street and she sees Saint's car. No! So she walks she walks to the end of the street and she's like, What the fuck are you doing? And he's like, You didn't tell me you had a family, I was curious what your family looks like. Uh a la what you did earlier. Um and she's like, what I did was clearly different.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:15

Um Not really, girl.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:17

Not really. Her defense of this is uh very nothing. Um her defense is basically I was only willing to drive the like eight minutes I assumed it would take to get to where you live, and you drove several hours to get here.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:29

That's cool, it's awesome. Don't hey bitch. Don't be weird.

SPEAKER_02 1:08:33

Um she she uh uh she's like, you can't do this, you can't you cannot fuck up my family life. Um go go back to the town that you came from. I can't remember the name of this fucking town. Knowing Go back to Tahoe. Go back to Tahoe. Um so uh she he uh uh finally he agrees to leave, he's like, let me know when you're back in Tahoe, and I'll make you a lasagna and make really good lasagna. And she's like, I will hold you to that.

SPEAKER_06 1:09:11

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:12

Um then so she f uh she finishes up, uh it's a beautiful birthday party or whatever, she drives back to Tahoe or wherever.

SPEAKER_05 1:09:21

Or wherever.

SPEAKER_02 1:09:22

Um and uh she gets back to the cabin and she calls Saint and he's like, I'm I'm I'm gonna run out for lasagna stuff now, and she's like, Ooh, actually I have a few supplies, I'll run out to this like corner store at the end of this street as well, and I'll I'll pick up some supplies. So she goes to the corner store and she's talking to the clerk, um, and she's like, uh uh the suicide from the beginning of the book was crazy. And the guy's like, What? And she's like, the guy that killed himself on uh on uh uh cabin road or whatever, and he's like, I live on cabin road. And she's like, You didn't hear about the guy that killed himself? And he was like, No, I would have heard about something like that. I'm extremely nosy. Uh and she's like, What? Um, so she the landlord shows up, the husband, not the uh bitch wife that I hate. Oh clarification. You're very welcome. And she's like, Hey, you remember the the cops and the s and the suicide, right? Uh your wife confirmed it to me, and he's like, I didn't hear anything about this. And so she's like, interesting. So she jumps into the car and she re-engages with my least favorite character, um, and she's like, Hey, you said there was a suicide, but like I just talked to like two other townspeople and they don't know anything about it. And she's like, uh, and uh oh, also at the store, she showed both of them a picture of Saint that she took.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:02

Um As one does, yeah off your boyfriend.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:04

And she's like, Do you know Officer Hunky? And they're both like, We do not have hunky cops in this town. None of our cops are are neither hunky nor sexy.

SPEAKER_05 1:11:14

Amazing.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:14

Um So she's like, Hey, you confirmed the suicide and Officer Hunky. And Mari is like, uh, I was just really bored. Um, it kind of sucks out here. Um I I I'm from I I'm used to like the hustle and bustle of Hollywood baby. Oh god. Um, and it it's just kind of boring, and I um I wanted something to do, and uh doing this seemed fun. And she's like, doing what? And Mari reveals that on the night that Petra met Saint, um, she saw a bunch of lights, and she came out to check and see what it was, and she saw him hanging a bunch of um like pol flashing police lights up in the trees, um, and he was like, I'll give you uh five hundred dollars if you tell this lady at this cabin that there was a suicide and I'm office and I'm a hunky officer. And she was like, You got it, baby. I I love to lie.

SPEAKER_05 1:12:12

Me too, bitch.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:14

Um So she's like, Oh my god, I can't believe this. Um she goes back to the cabin. Um, she uh there's a very long description about how she does a reverse Google search of the s the selfie she took with Saint. Um uh she pays for like one of those uh background check websites that like jobs do or like employers do to check and see if you've ever like uh been to jail.

SPEAKER_05 1:12:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:44

Um and she finds out that he is not a cop. Um he is a Hollywood screenwriter named Eric Kingston. Um now I thought the fact that he's a screenwriter was going to come back. Um it kind of doesn't, actually, even a little bit. Uh the the twist here is j uh that he's a screenwriter has nothing to do with uh the the fact that uh she she got cancelled for a movie.

SPEAKER_05 1:13:13

Awesome. They're just like both happen to be in Hollywood.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:16

Yeah, they just both happen to be in Hollywood. I kinda to me, I kind of think a lot of this book is Colleen Hoover expressing her personal distaste in her experiences in the movie industry. So she's like, oh, like you, you know, you uh I had like a bad experience making a movie, and uh the bad guy, kind of in the same way that like the bad guy in the Fifty Shades of Grey series is uh a book editor.

unknown 1:13:45

Right, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:46

And and Eil James is like, also they're rapists. I don't know if anybody's said this before, but they kind of rape your novels. Just in the same way they they want to rape um your your beautiful Bellaswan characters.

SPEAKER_05 1:13:58

Not your beautiful Bellaswan characters.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:00

Um anyway, uh she finds out he's Eric Kingston, um, Saint shows up, Saint slash Eric Kingston shows up, and she's like, hey, um, and he like immediately sniffs out that she knows. He like finds her laptop and he just like reads her screen. It's like open to I knowyoursecret.com.

SPEAKER_05 1:14:21

No! That's so funny.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:23

Um and he's like, alright. And she uh he explains, he's like, let me explain. I don't want to hurt you, I'm not crazy.

SPEAKER_05 1:14:31

Yes, he is.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:32

I'm a fan.

SPEAKER_05 1:14:33

Yeah, told you, club it, clock.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:35

I love your novels. Okay. I was on the Dr. Umar Stow Bunny Block Party, and I saw you say that uh you can't you you feel like you can't write a book um unless it's from your personal experience, and so I decided to give you a personal experience around the characters that you created.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:58

And why not?

SPEAKER_02 1:14:59

And she's like, okay, but you hear how crazy that sounds, right? And he's like, I don't. I don't hear that.

SPEAKER_05 1:15:07

Not that white king.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:08

Um so she's like, I want to leave, please let me leave. And he's like, Again, I'm not going to hurt you. Uh uh, so then um he's like, I have one request, it's just one request. It's easily the craziest line of the whole book. He goes, When you dedicate this book, when you finish up this novel and you write the dedication, you better fucking dedicate it to Saint, because he fucked this novel out of you.

SPEAKER_05 1:15:37

I always hate how much you spit out that fuck.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:40

That was the that was the That's the only way I can imagine he says it.

SPEAKER_05 1:15:43

Okay, but so he doesn't have the effeminate girly voice you like to give all of your characters.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:46

No, because he's uh he's like a bad guy.

SPEAKER_05 1:15:49

Yeah, okay, no, I get it.

SPEAKER_02 1:15:51

Um anyway, uh, she goes back to her uh her uh TikTok watching husband, um her her cuck TikTok watching husband, um, and her uh annoying daughters.

SPEAKER_05 1:16:04

Sometimes you just gotta escape those dumb whores, you know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_02 1:16:07

She finishes the novel. Uh it's uh it's mega popular, it's uh the most it's the most popular book she's ever written. Of course. She titles it Woman Down.

SPEAKER_05 1:16:17

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:20

Which I read that and I kept thinking about. I was like. I wanna does that that kind of implies to me that this that this book got fucked out of Colleen Hoover.

SPEAKER_05 1:16:31

Who did she dedicate it to? Oh my god.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:35

Um anyway, uh, it's mega popular. Her husband tells her it's his favorite novel she's ever written.

SPEAKER_05 1:16:41

Yeah, I bet it is, bitch.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:45

The the plot of the novel, I I guess it's kind of explained, but like I wanna know, like, how does she fit does it does it turn out that like Cam also secretly isn't a cop? He's like a fan of Rea's law work or legal work.

SPEAKER_05 1:17:01

Um he just really enjoys what she does for him.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:04

Yeah, he's like, your your tort reforms are top-notch, and I I'm kinda I kinda really dig that. And um when you were on the live um and you were saying that uh you don't know how to write contracts unless you've lived the contract or whatever.

SPEAKER_05 1:17:18

You better thank me in your deposition because I fucked this.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:22

I fucked this contract out of you, bitch. I fucked this case out of you.

SPEAKER_05 1:17:26

Okay, damn. What the fuck?

SPEAKER_02 1:17:29

Um uh anyway, she goes to a book con and sh she she finally gets the the courage to tell her truth, uh, R.E. the uh slashing of one character from the uh film adaptation of her novel. Um and she just explains that um uh basically she thought that uh the movie writers would know better than her when they told her that they were gonna cut one of her characters, and she didn't have the confidence to say no. Um and so she let them do it, and uh she didn't have the she didn't believe in herself and her work, and she needs to uh uh believe in herself. Naruto style. Um anyway, Saint is there.

SPEAKER_05 1:18:19

Oh, Jesus.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:20

Slash Eric Kingston, and he's like, Yeah, I have a quick question.

SPEAKER_05 1:18:26

Yeah, I bet you do, bud.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:27

And she's like, I think we're done with questions. And Nora, who's also there at the book con, is not picking up the vibes, and she's like, I think we have time for one more. Um, and he's like, Yeah, like what inspired you for this novel? And she's like, um, like a bunch of stuff. Uh uh nothing in particular, and he's like, Did anybody inspire you?

SPEAKER_05 1:18:50

Oh, get her ass.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:52

And she's like, No. Uh and then they do the they do the signing, um, Saint shows up, and uh he he's like, Can you sign my my my book? And she uh signs it like just her name, and he's like, Can you personalize it a little bit? And so she writes to a complete fucking stranger, um, Petra Rose.

SPEAKER_05 1:19:15

Hey girly pop, crazy.

SPEAKER_02 1:19:17

Um she uh keeps signing, he walks away. Um while she's signing, she sees him approach Nora and he starts talking to Nora, and she's like, oh my god, he's like a serial improv. He's he's like a serial improv uh reenactor to like inspire novelists and he's gonna do this to Nora, I need to save her. And so uh she like chases after them, but they've like started walking outside. So she chases them out into the parking lot, and she's like uh she's like, Don't stop talking to her, stop talking to her. And uh Nora's like, oh hey Petra, what's uh what's what's what's happening? And she goes, I don't know what he told you, but or who he told you he is, but he's a liar, and you can't trust anything he says. And she go and Nora goes, Who, Eric? And she's like, What do you mean who, Eric? And she's like, Yeah, this is this is my friend Eric, Eric Kingston. And she's like, you know this guy? Um and she's like, yeah, and she's like, why, what what's going on? And she's like, oh my god, um, like this guy is like dangerous, and she's like, he he j he only just like showed up like he didn't do anything crazy, right? When I when I asked him to, I didn't ask him to do anything crazy. And and Petra goes, what do you mean when you asked him to? And Nora reveals, uh, for our final twist, that at the Dr. Ubar Snowbody Blood Party, um, she saw that her college friend, Eric Kingston, was in the chat, and so they started DMing, and she's like, Oh my god, you're low key handsome. You should dress up in a cop uniform and go find like a pretext to introduce yourself, and that way can kind of inspire her for this character of um married cop having an affair. Mary, marry, married hunky cop having an affair. And I gotta know what this DM looked like. How did this DM chain go that this idea would even come up? Like, how does how do you get a DM that's like, okay, here's an idea. I have an idea. What if you dress up as a cop and then you go knock on the door, uh tell her that tell her that a guy killed himself.

SPEAKER_05 1:21:58

That's that'd be so funny.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:01

Um, that seems like it would be such a good idea.

SPEAKER_05 1:22:03

No, I agree.

SPEAKER_02 1:22:04

And Petra's like, oh my god, do you have any idea what you've done? You've jeopardized my marriage. And pet and uh Nora goes, Hold on, bitch. What do you mean I jeopardized your marriage? What the fuck happened? Because I just told him to show up, show his hunky body to you in a cop uniform with a wedding ring on, and then talk to you for five minutes and then leave. And Eric jumps in here to go, haha, totally Nora, that's 100% what happened. I just kind of came out a little too intense, I got a little too into character, you know how I am. Me, Eric Kingston, uh, I got a little too into character, and I scared her a little bit, and that's what all this is about. And she's like, okay. Uh um. So her and Nora are like, they're they're like mad, mad at each other. Um, or she's she's like big mad at Nora.

SPEAKER_05 1:23:02

Okay, still uh it seems like perfectly innocent. I think maybe she's being insane.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:07

Um she finishes up the book signing, she goes to her hotel, and she gets a ping notification that she's gotten an email. And the email is a reservation for the week after her book tour ends, and uh the reserv it's a reservation for the original cabin she usually stays at. Yep. Gotta be really clear about that. Um and uh then there's a ping, another uh email comes through and it says, I think it's time we schedule starting on your next book. Oh and I Okay, I don't this ending is okay, I know I know we don't say things are bad. This ending is bad to me.

SPEAKER_03 1:23:57

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:23:58

Only because I number one, cancel just cancel the reservation.

SPEAKER_05 1:24:04

Cancel the reservation.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:05

Yeah, can't was the c was the reservation made on your card? Uh say your card was stolen, cancel your card, get a new card. Um cancel your reservation. Girl, you this town is fucked to you now. You gotta find a new writer's retreat.

SPEAKER_05 1:24:20

Yeah, you can't come back here. I'm sorry, girl.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:22

Secondly, how does how would it work in how would it work now that she knows that he's not a married cop?

SPEAKER_05 1:24:30

Well, now he she knows he's just an actor.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:33

Yeah, now she knows that he's not even an actor, he's like a s where when is he working?

SPEAKER_05 1:24:39

As I told you once, and I'll tell you again, JC, he did this because it's during the writer's strike.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:45

It's during the writer's strike.

SPEAKER_05 1:24:48

He was forced to find uh alternative employment and good on him for finding some.

SPEAKER_02 1:24:53

I don't understand how this would pay. Well, obviously he would have to like carve out like part of her contract that he gets money for inspiring her book.

SPEAKER_05 1:25:05

I mean, if you write anything down correctly, you can make anything work, you know what I'm saying? Like, haha, sign my can you sign my autograph? Oh no, you agreed to pay me money.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:14

You agree to pay me money.

SPEAKER_05 1:25:16

Oh no.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:18

Yeah, they're doing the trick where they're like, can I get your autograph? But like underneath it is like a is like a contract.

SPEAKER_05 1:25:23

Oh, that's the best griff to do. Hell yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:26

He has like her book open to like the front page, and he's like, Could you sign this? But underneath he has a contract that says you'll give me money for every book I inspire.

SPEAKER_05 1:25:35

Yeah, fuck yeah. Fuck yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:25:37

Um And that's the end of the book. Um that's like the that's like the the shocking ending, is she's like, oh my god. Um the book as a whole feels I kind of talked about like to me, at least Layla, feels like a little sh it feels like she writes them fast. Um Layla has like a to me an obvious moral quandary at the end. Um, and then just like the characters don't deal with it.

SPEAKER_05 1:26:13

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:14

They just like entirely walk past the this like established moral quandary. They just don't give a shit about it. Um This book feels sloppy to me.

SPEAKER_06 1:26:29

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:30

It it feels and I and I know that um I I re you heard a little bit in the excerpt I read, but uh Colleen Hoover obviously does not have warm feelings for people who um write negative reviews of her books and then talk about them on small podcasts.

SPEAKER_05 1:26:49

We're doomed.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:51

We're doomed She got she got my ass with that one. Um but to me the the book feels like there's just like a lot of stuff where I'm like, this doesn't feel planned. This feels like you had like an approximate ending in mind, you had like a beginning just based on like the stuff you've been going through for the past like two years. Uh-huh. Um and you just like wrote a you you wrote very quickly and uncarefully between those two points.

SPEAKER_06 1:27:27

Right.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:28

Um, you know, for example, like I said, the fact that she's married, but it which kind of like recontextualizes everything before. Um you know, stuff like this is just written in such a way that I'm like, this you should have this feels like an editor should have like caught this and made you go back and change it.

SPEAKER_06 1:27:47

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02 1:27:48

Um And they didn't. Uh so it makes me wonder if it's um if it's like a s you know how like the the later Harry Potter books are written like Like, I guess you wouldn't know.

SPEAKER_05 1:28:01

No, I never read Harry Potter because I'm better than everyone.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:03

The later Harry Potter books are written in a way that you can tell there was like no long-term plan.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:09

Um, so she's kind of making it up as she goes, and you can just kind of tell that like by this point, J.K. Rowling is so huge that like an editor can't tell her shit.

SPEAKER_05 1:28:19

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 1:28:20

Um That feels like what's happening with this book. Um The last thing I wanted to talk about and and this is kind of like a more conceptual thing that just the the characters bring up within the book, which is at the beginning of the book, Petra and Nora are talking about um bad root people who uh us. She's talking about us. Nice! People people who review books and they say they're bad, and they say that the writer never should have gotten into writing to begin with. Um and you know, they say stuff like this, they're um they're basically calling for Colleen Hoover to be cancelled.

SPEAKER_05 1:29:06

Would you like to see me call for Colleen Hoover to be cancelled? Because I can start.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:10

No, I don't because I don't think Colleen Hoover should be cancelled. I think that her books are fine. Like I said, I don't have like strong enough feelings about Colleen Hoover or her writing to like feel that like, oh like she should never write again. It's like, yeah, what to me, Colleen Hoover is like, um, I don't know. Col Colleen Hoover is is kind of like a Dean Kuntz.

SPEAKER_05 1:29:37

We're like Whoa, that's a burn and a half, oh my god.

SPEAKER_02 1:29:41

We're like, people read Dean Kuntz, people enjoy I've I I've enjoyed Dean Koontz books. But like But like Nobody is ever nobody is ever going to say that Dean Kuntz writes uh beautiful art. And he doesn't have to, and neither does Colleen Hoover. If if you're reading a Colleen Hoover book and you get to the end and you go, wow, that was thrilling, that's that's the value of Colleen Hoover. Um This book to me like if I got to the end of this book and I went, okay. Right? Like it was just like, alright. It just wasn't much to me. Um but so they have they have like this back and forth, and then Nora goes, and these people who call for uh these writers to never write again, then get on their soapbox and they lament and cry when people talk about banning books. They're like, no, you can't don't let the books be banned. And th this is such a funny moment to me, only because nobody is calling for banning Colleen Hoover books.

SPEAKER_05 1:30:52

Well, I might start now that she brought it up. Now that I know it's an option, I might need to look into this.

SPEAKER_02 1:30:58

Like, Colleen Hoover doesn't write banable books. She writes books that she write Colleen Hoover writes books that people who want to like ban books from like school libraries or whatever would enjoy.

SPEAKER_05 1:31:12

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:12

Um she writes books that those people would go, like, you should read Colleen Hoover. They Colleen Hoover doesn't write iconoclastic fiction. Um, I don't know, it's just it's just like a very strange idea to me to imagine that like Colleen Hoover is like writing this and being like, and they want to ban my books.

SPEAKER_05 1:31:35

And they want to get my ass.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:37

No, they don't. Again, this is like um this is where like the conservatism, the conservative tinge of Colleen Hoover kind of shines through. It's stuff like um her like kind of implying that like people who talk about banned books are kind of fear-mongering when really they should be talking about the fact that they want to cancel her. She mentions cancel cancel culture several times in the book. And then, you know, you have stuff like this this like banned books line, but then like I kind of joked about it earlier, but like to me, the twists of this book kind of the final twists of this book kind of only work if you are conservative. We've been referencing it this whole time, but like the fact The fact that there's like the one of the twists is that like this cop who's like interested in a woman's writing aspirations enough to do like weird, embarrassing roleplay with her is really a cop. I the moment he started doing roleplay, I was like, the twist is gonna be that he's not a cop. Yeah. Like that he's that he's like a fake, that he's like a fake guy. Because that's the only way this you can't convince me there's a novel where like a cop cares about this woman's riding career.

SPEAKER_05 1:32:58

Yeah, exactly. It's not very cop-like of you.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:00

Or that like um like the again, you the the twist that like, oh, like this landlady who talks about how much she loves owning uh all the land around this lake, all the cabins around this lake, and the money she makes from that, such that she'll never have to work a nine to five job. You'll never convince me that that's an honest person, that she's not telling outrageous lies. Yeah. Like I that that like just doesn't work. I don't believe I I'm already primed to not believe this woman. Um, so to me, it's kind of a moment where like the the twist would be that he is really a cop that cares about her writing career, or that the the landlady is a landlady who uh tells the truth.

SPEAKER_05 1:33:47

Yeah, it it I think it also is something inherently conservative about the fact that there even is like a romantic cop lead, because that in and of itself, especially nowadays in the current political climate, like just doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:01

No.

SPEAKER_05 1:34:02

Well, it it it does not it doesn't track in the way I think she wants it to track.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:08

Um, and so it's just it's a little like I think it it's interesting just out of the fact that it's very revealing about Colleen Hoover herself. It's a very revealing novel. Yes. Whereas Layla was not Layla didn't feel like it particularly revealed anything about Colleen Hoover or like her her thoughts or what she thinks about things. Yep. Um other than just like I said, like there's a moral quandary, and I can tell what Colleen Hoover's what Colleen Hoover thinks about this moral quandary based on the fact that she doesn't engage with it. Um I think um in in many ways I've only seen the movie, but I I think in many ways it ends with us is very revealing in a different way than this book is.

SPEAKER_05 1:35:01

Come on, explain.

SPEAKER_02 1:35:03

Um I think that in a way that I think it ends with us, it comes out of like a place of again, my understanding of the book is that it comes out of a place of very real pain and of uh of very real trauma and trauma experience. Whereas and and and empathy especially. Empathy for like future generations, her her children and her children's children. Um whereas this book is revealing because it kind of doesn't come out of a place of empathy. Um the main character of this book is an iconoclastic author, and her fans are kind of like this this rabid bunch of people who refuse to give her grace on anything. Um the the people of the the people consuming her, the media she puts out, are only there to pull her down and and and and uh eat away at her self-respect and her confidence.

SPEAKER_05 1:36:13

That's all fans are good for.

SPEAKER_02 1:36:16

Um and and I grant that that might be a little uncharitable for what she's written, but I think it is a valid reading of the book. Much in the same way that um um, you know, last year as a joke I read The Game by Neil Strauss. And we talked about the fact that like um it it's a book that has like a certain level of deniability that Neil Strauss really thinks that like the pickup artistry community is cool.

SPEAKER_05 1:36:48

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 1:36:49

But he is also like having these long chapters where he's like, anyway, here's how I had a threesome. And you're like, you think this is cool?

SPEAKER_05 1:36:57

Oh yeah, he does.

SPEAKER_02 1:36:58

And um I was talking about I was talking about that with a buddy of mine, and he was like, the fact that it's a valid reading of that book, that uh the fact that it's a reading you could have and you could back up, and like the only response somebody would have is that they have a different interpretation means that you both have a valid reading of the book, but yours just comes with negative connotation. And I think it's kind of the same thing here, where I think you could have an argument that that's not the case. Colleen Hoover doesn't think that, that is not the perspective of this book, that uh uh fans are like a rabid community who who desire to uh uh eat you and you know, you pull you and consume the viscera uh of of cancel culture. They're waiting for an opportunity to cancel, they're waiting for you to slip up. So you so they can so they can uh consume you when they have no more media.

SPEAKER_06 1:38:00

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 1:38:01

Um you you become you become the product, you become commodity when there's no more media to consume. Um And I think the fact that that is a that is a reading of this novel, to me at least, makes it a valid one. Granted, that is just it's my reading. Yeah. So of course I think it's valid. Um but I I th I think if somebody came at me and and made like a good case for that's not what the book is saying. That's not what Colleen Hoover is saying, that's just uncharitable on my part, and they they backed it up. I I think I would consider their opinion valid as well.

SPEAKER_05 1:38:40

Did you read any reviews after you finished this book?

SPEAKER_02 1:38:45

Um, ooh, I did not, actually.

SPEAKER_05 1:38:47

I so when you told me you were gonna be reading this book for the pod, I actually went through and especially when I was getting it for you, because you know, I get your books onto your Kindle for you. Um a lot of people were like hating on this book. Being like, this is so stupid, and she thinks she's all that, and you know, this is clearly just her own, like not fan casting, but like her way of trying to like legitimize how she feels, but it has nothing to do with the truth. People were really angry and reviews, but I did, you know, I got this book very soon after it came out, so I will say that that could just be a lot of the initial thoughts that people had. I mean, if you already hate Colleen Hoover, really easy to to get on her.

SPEAKER_02 1:39:30

Like I said, I think it's I I think both both interpretations are valid, depending on if you like Colleen Hoover or if you tend to dislike Colleen Hoover. Um I I guess on those two lines I would lean more to, especially given that I've only read two of her books, I would lean more towards I generally dislike. Um but I mean for all those reviewers, uh Colleen Hoover has gotten their ass. Uh they're they're just haters. Uh they're they're the haters and the liars in the world.

SPEAKER_05 1:40:00

Um not you quoting a Taylor Swift song.

SPEAKER_02 1:40:02

Yeah, that's that's her, she's Taylor Swift. Um They're the haters and the liars of this world, and they need to get down to this sick beat.

SPEAKER_05 1:40:12

Good for you for remembering those lyrics. I know that was hard for you.

SPEAKER_02 1:40:16

It was very difficult.

SPEAKER_05 1:40:19

I know, I know.

SPEAKER_02 1:40:21

And that's woman down.

SPEAKER_05 1:40:23

That's woman down.

SPEAKER_02 1:40:24

Woman down. Uh this was fucked out of you.

SPEAKER_01 1:40:30

This podcast was fucked out of me.

SPEAKER_05 1:40:31

This podcast was fucked out of you. You're gonna spit the fucker up if it doesn't count. Oh my gosh. Are you gonna be reading more Colleen Hoover?

SPEAKER_02 1:40:40

Um, I might. I might. Um The only the the only problem with reading Colleen Hoover is Colleen Hoover's books are so over the top that they're really easy for content, which on the one hand makes writing a podcast episode about one of her books very easy, but on the other hand, means you have to try to get it out before everybody else creates content. Um, and so like every Colleen Hoover book's already had like w a million podcasts and YouTube videos about it, uh ad nauseum.

SPEAKER_05 1:41:11

That's very true. I have not seen a lot of these though.

SPEAKER_02 1:41:14

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_05 1:41:15

That's why that's why that's why we rushed to do this one.

SPEAKER_02 1:41:17

Yeah, that's why I was like, we gotta do Woman Down.

SPEAKER_05 1:41:20

Oh my god. Oh, do you see any final words to the people?

SPEAKER_00 1:41:27

Have a good, y'all.

SPEAKER_05 1:41:28

Have a good, y'all.