Ep. 6. - My Struggle by Karl Ove Knausgaard

Do you ever wonder what couples spend the most time talking about? Well, if they know about the My Struggle books by Karl Ove Knausgaard, it's that. Join JC and Chloe for a public gossip sesh about a man who can't help but tell you about his deepest darkest shame.

Transcript

Speaker 0:07

I'm sorry, what? I've read the ones of the Welcome to Pap.

Speaker 6 0:16

Yo yo yo, what's up? It's c.literature. I'm Chloe.

Speaker 5 0:20

I'm JC.

Speaker 6 0:22

And we're here in our library, surrounded by sheets, because our entire upstairs is under construction and I'm a little bit stressed about it. What's up.

Speaker 5 0:32

Okay.

Speaker 6 0:32

What have you been reading?

Speaker 5 0:34

Uh well, lately I'm in the middle of reading uh If on a Winter's Night a Traveler by Atalo Calvino.

Speaker 6 0:41

Um I can see the glare I give him. Every single time he mentions these books, I'm like, what the fuck is that? But I know it's gonna be insane by the way he kind of like smirks, just like, like just really excited to tell me.

Speaker 5 0:51

Smirking?

Speaker 6 0:52

No, dead ass.

Speaker 5 0:53

Oh my god. Um, it's pretty fun. It's a Italo Calvino is of course an Italian writer based on the fact that his first name is Italo. But it's about uh it's sort of in the second person, and it's about me, the reader, trying to find track down and read the new Italo Calvino novel, if on a Winter's Night of Traveler. I, the reader, open up a first novel and it's sort of like a or for the first chapter and it's sort of like a spy novel type situation, um, but it's like kind of out of order and uh all over the place and printed poorly. Uh so I, the reader, uh g go to like the book the bookstore and point out that it's not right, and then they're like, oh my god, I'm really sorry. This happened with some of the new Italo Calvino novels. If you just like let me find you a regular one, and I say, well, no, no, no, I've been enjoying the like kind of spy novel situation I've been in. Uh, can you give me that book instead? Um, but then they give me that one, and it's not that one either. Uh that one has like none of the names are Polish. It's uh it's got like a a kind of um weirder tone, and it turns out it's a book from a uh country that no longer exists called Samaria. Uh and then uh so I take it to a professor with my friend who's also trying to read the new Italo Calvino, uh Ludmila, and we take it to a professor who tells us about the history of Samaria and how Sameria has been subsumed in a s as a Soviet bloc state uh called Kimbria. Um, and then we get like in embroiled in like a sort of like geopolitical and also interdisciplinary conflict between two university departments. Um there's like a there's like an author who just kind of uh or it turns out that like there's like a translator issue, and the translator is associated with this author who just uh posts slop. It's a lot of fun. I've been really enjoying it. It's very strange, it's kind of all over the place. Uh each chapter is uh split out into me, the reader, trying to find like going to like a different person and being like, hey, do you have the new Italo Calvino? And then uh get and then the second half of the chapter is the first chapter of a new book concept. So it's kind of just a book uh of like ten like the first ten pages of ten novels. Uh it's pretty fun so far.

Speaker 6 3:43

Okay, so I want everyone to know that JC just explained that like ass.

Speaker 3 3:48

What?

Speaker 6 3:49

But when you read it to me, it is super fucking awesome, and I do super love it. And I have really been enjoying you stopping me reading in the middle of the day to go, can I tell you this? Can I read this part to you? It is super cool. It's complicated, but it's super important. Yeah, it's fun. It's super dope.

Speaker 5 4:05

Yeah. What have you been reading?

Speaker 6 4:07

Girl, I read Thrum. Thrum? Thrum Thrum by uh what is it, Meg Smitherman?

Speaker 4:14

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 6 4:15

That book confuses me. It's not long, but everyone's like, here's the thing. Everyone online who talks about it is like, it's a romance book. It's a romance book. It's like a like romance between like a woman and like this unknown entity. I don't want to spoil it.

Speaker 1 4:33

Okay.

Speaker 6 4:34

It's not a romance book. Like, let's just lay it down right there. It is like a sci-fi horror novel. Okay. Um people saying it's romantic really like stress me out now because I'm like, baby girl, that's what you think romance is?

Speaker 5 4:47

Yeah.

Speaker 6 4:47

Baby girl, that's not romance. That's pure manipulation.

Speaker 5 4:51

That's pure manipulation. Baby girl.

Speaker 6 4:54

Baby girl, that's not romance. And it was a lot of fun. Like, I love a you know I love a good horror novel, and I have a special place in my heart for um sci-fi horror novels, like that one I made you read. Dark Silent, something like that.

Speaker 5 5:06

Yeah, I think I do think that was it.

Speaker 6 5:08

So good. Love that shit. Uh, she's another one I really want to read, which is called Ghost Station. Can't remember the author's name. SA Barnes!

unknown 5:14

S.

Speaker 6 5:15

Got there. Yeah. Uh love sci-fi horror. Uh, and this was a great sci-fi horror. Not the best romance, but that's okay. We're not. Not everything gotta be romance. Not everything's gonna be. Yeah. Uh it was good. It was good.

Speaker 5 5:28

Nice.

Speaker 6 5:29

Yeah. JC.

Speaker 5 5:31

Yes.

Speaker 6 5:32

Tell us what we're reading today.

Speaker 5 5:35

Today I'm talking about a a book series that I've been really enjoying.

Speaker 6 5:40

Mind Kampf.

Speaker 5 5:41

Uh no. No. I actually looked it up to see what it is called in Germany, and I'll get to that here in a second.

Speaker 1 5:48

Okay. After I've diffused the situation.

Speaker 5 5:51

Yeah, after I've explained this a little better. In in my uh continuing need to only read book series for this podcast. Yeah, I get it. Um, I've decided to just kind of like sum up like half of a book series. Oh, that's true. Um, which is uh a little it's it's efficient for sure. Especially with these books, which I think would be hard to explain one one by one.

Speaker 6 6:16

These are not books so much as they are hardbacked journals.

Speaker 5 6:20

Yeah, yeah, for sure. Um musings, I think, is a good way to do it.

Speaker 6 6:24

Don't say musings. That really gives him a lot more weight. This is a guy in the middle of like, I don't know, uh an issue. Just going for it.

Speaker 5 6:34

Um, so I read the My Struggle series by Karl of a Kanausgard. Carl Ova. Who's a Norwegian author, and during a moment of my understanding, is the first two books come out of uh kind of like a marathon writer's block, um, just kind of like a writing exercise session, um, that he decides to kind of like bear down on and and finish up as like a larger project. Um so basically they are kind of very and and this is subject to interpretation, very honest and very earnest uh uh stream of consciousness, writings about himself and his life and his thoughts, and um things of that nature. Um some of them kind of center around a theme. Um do uh some center around a theme a little stronger than others. Uh I think especially after the first one, he kind of sticks to a theme a little better. The first two are really uh adrift. They he he gets um off track really easily. Um but but I I find them very fun to read. Um he's kind of a weird guy to me. He's uh he's a fascinating character to me. Um and I I just really like reading the series. I I think his his thoughts are at the very least very interesting to me, even if I don't agree with them. Um he has these uh you know, like for example, the first one, and we'll get into this, is kind of generally uh introducing himself and about uh his emotions concerning the death of his father. The second one are about his courtship and eventual marriage uh to his second wife, uh, and the third one is about uh his upbringing on the island of Trimoya, uh off the coast of Southeast Norway, um, and kind of about his his father uh and his relationship to his father when he's a child. Um those are the three I'm gonna go over today. Those are the three I've read. Um I'll get to the next three at some point in the future.

Speaker 6 8:59

Do we have the other three?

Speaker 5 9:00

Not yet.

Speaker 6 9:01

He doesn't even know! Okay, that's not true.

Speaker 5 9:04

We have four and five. I'm I'm looking up in our in our library and I'm seeing four and five. Okay, we're missing six. Yeah.

Speaker 6 9:09

Uh Carl Ova, come on the pot. Uh Carl Carlova, come on the pot! I um I do want to now, JC, not to to show how the sausage gets made.

Speaker 5 9:18

Okay.

Speaker 6 9:19

You started these books a long time ago.

Speaker 5 9:22

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 6 9:23

Carl Ova has been Carl Ova has been a part of this family for a long time. We talk about this guy fairly frequently.

Speaker 5 9:31

Yeah.

Speaker 6 9:32

He is such a weirdo, and these journals are so weirdly personal. And this guy is such a freak.

Speaker 5 9:41

Oh, for sure.

Speaker 6 9:42

That we talk about him on the rig. And I think that is hysterical because I also know you've told me that this guy considers these books to be like they ruined his life because they made everyone think that they know him. But also simultaneously, I do know this man. I know everything about this man. I can walk up to this man and be like, that was crazy that you did that in high school. And I can walk up to this man and be like, that was an insane way to respond after your second wife said, No thanks. I'm good on that dick.

Speaker 5 10:10

Yeah. It's definitely very parasocial.

Speaker 6 10:13

Oh, it's amazing. Who needs influencers when you got fucking Carl Ovokanowski?

Speaker 5 10:18

Yeah, when you got fucking weirdos.

Speaker 6 10:20

Hell yeah.

Speaker 5 10:21

So I'm gonna try to sum up the books as as best I can. Structurally, they're a little all over the place. The third one is a little more coherent than the other two.

Speaker 6 10:31

But it's the saddest.

Speaker 5 10:33

Yeah.

Speaker 6 10:34

JC JC is like, hey, I need to find some quotes for this. Can I test some quotes on you? I'm like, yeah, sure, whatever. Let's see what you got. He starts reading what is I can only explain this, the longest quote I've ever heard about a child nearly vomiting from fear of being beaten by their abusive father, and I had to stop him and be like It was a little intense. Hey, don't know if this is for the pod, but uh love the passion, bud.

Speaker 5 10:59

Yeah. And uh Yeah, so that one's we'll we'll get there.

Speaker 6 11:04

We'll get there. Don't worry. But it's not the really long, terrifying uh one that made JC get yelled at.

Speaker 5 11:10

Yeah, the quotes I'm I'm going for are are shorter and and much less sad.

Speaker 6 11:15

Less about being abused and like wanting to die because your father's gonna hurt you.

Speaker 5 11:19

Yeah.

Speaker 6 11:20

Oh, good.

Speaker 5 11:21

The book one is the first one. It's yeah, what's up?

Speaker 6 11:25

Okay, interruption. What's it called in Germany?

Speaker 5 11:28

Oh, um, so you know how e each of the books have um some of them say it and some of them don't. It depends on what publisher it is. Yep. Does it have it? It doesn't even have it on this one either. Um they have like subtitled names. Um, so like book two is called uh My Struggle Book Two A Man in Love. Um I believe book one is called My Struggle My Struggle Book One A Death is I think the name of it. Um and so each of them, uh or maybe it's a death in the family, it's something like that. And so the name their names in German are kind of like based on that one. So like uh number one, I think, is called death, number two is called love, um, stuff like this. So like it goes on from there based on those, so that way, because the the name in Norwegian is of course Min Kamp, but the name in German is Mein Kampf. So they Yeah and that's not allowed. You can't call this that.

Speaker 6 12:29

Yeah, that someone already wrote in that title.

Speaker 5 12:32

Apparently there was like a big uh there's there's a big hubbub um when the books were coming out that Karlova Kanausgard wanted to call it this in the first place, and people are like, you can't call it that.

Speaker 6 12:45

Girl, I think it's fine because honestly, it's so insane.

Speaker 5 12:50

Whatever.

Speaker 6 12:52

Girl, I don't care what you call it. Why did you tell me about your penis?

Speaker 5 12:58

Um, so the first one is kind of introducing himself as an individual. It's kind of uh all the books are kind of a collection of anecdotes.

Speaker 6 13:08

They are. They're they're free association.

Speaker 5 13:10

They're super free association.

Speaker 6 13:12

Yep.

Speaker 5 13:13

Um, so the first one features like anecdotes about like um himself in high school, um, his like relationship with his classmates, his relationship to his brother. There's some anecdotes uh with his father. Um, for example, there's like the moment that he's I don't know how high school works in Norway, but I think it's on that um on like that British style where like they they like when they turn 16 they go to college, quote unquote.

Speaker 6 13:40

A girl.

Speaker 5 13:40

Um but it's like they go to like college, but like college is like they live away from home now, but they're like 16.

Speaker 6 13:49

Uh uh Europeans uh reach out, let us know what the fuck is going on with your school system, because we could not guess.

Speaker 5 13:55

Um but he's like commuting to school uh and he lives in like uh an apartment his grandfather has but doesn't live in anymore. It's an apartment they got from his grandfather's inheritance. Um so he lives there, and uh his dad shows up and his dad's like, Hey, me and your mom are getting divorced. He doesn't Karlov doesn't really remember very much about this, it seems. Or both him and his father have like a very muted reaction to this. His father just keeps being like, Do you want to like talk about this more? And Karlovakard is kind of like, not really. Um so this is like the type of thing that's happening. This is like the type of anecdote. Some of some are short, some are long. Um there's uh an there's a longer anecdote about like how Carlova Kanausgard starts learning guitar. Um he m he plays like um like Scorpion Um get like this type of um like Van Halen type stuff. And um he starts a band with some of his classmates. Um they don't practice very much, but um he's like to him at the time when they do practice, it sounds pretty good. I was sort of in a band in high school, and so to me, to me, I'm like, yeah, this is kind of what it feels like, where uh you do sort of feel like uh um like when you're playing with your friends, you're like, this sounds good as hell. I kind of sound exactly like Ronnie James Dio. Um, and then like you listen to a recording of it and you're like, oh, this is the most ass recording of Ronnie James Dio in the entire world.

Speaker 6 15:43

Yeah, sometimes you're like, Chloe, I was in a band, and I'm like, Yeah, and you're like, Yeah, let me sing you some songs, and I have to be like, haha, so good.

Speaker 5 15:50

Oh, it's so good.

Speaker 6 15:52

GC, you're so talented.

Speaker 5 15:55

So he gets the band a gig playing like for the opening of this business in their town square. Um, they like set up they're supposed to play, I think it's like 15 minutes worth of songs, but after five, the uh the proprietor comes out and he's like, You just gotta get out of here. The people do not like this. Nobody likes that you're doing this and you don't sound good, and it doesn't sound good enough for my business opening. And so Carlova Kanauscard is like, uh, I have like a lot of embarrassment and shame about this. Like thinking about this moment, it makes me cringe a lot. And I'm like, yeah, man, it's making me cringe imagining the scenario.

Speaker 6 16:40

I you know how there's always that trend on TikTok that's like the FBI could not get this information out of me.

Speaker 5 16:46

This entire book series is stuff that the FBI should not be able to waterboard out of this man. It's 100% stuff that he shouldn't be talking about.

Speaker 6 16:55

I know, it's amazing. I do love it, but we okay, so uh context. JC and I live in the middle of nowhere in the country. We live out here with the the con the country people.

Speaker 5 17:07

Sure.

Speaker 6 17:07

Every single time we like drive down the road and like onto the really like desolate highway we live off of, we are talking about Ova. I feel like nine times out of ten, we are talking about this guy, and you're like, I just thought about this thing he did that was really embarrassing.

Speaker 5 17:21

Yeah, he does embarrassing stuff all the time. This is kind of a recurring theme for him. There's there's two big recurring themes throughout all the books, and it's his really intense feelings of guilt and shame that he has about a lot of stuff. Like he's really agonizing over this stuff. Um, and the second is the desire to create important art. And and those are kind of like the two things that kind of like um drive him through this project. Right? You can kind of tell, especially um like while he's writing the second one, I think, that like he knows that like this is getting popular. He he knows that like this is um people are loving this, that like this is the art that he's been looking for, but it's like not a novel that he's written. He's written by this point, he's written a couple novels, and they've done moderately well. Um, but like this is what's getting his name out there, and it's just like this um insane treatise on how bad he feels about a bunch of weird bullshit that he's done in his life.

Speaker 6 18:32

Yeah, it is kind of funny that he I uh okay. I think men are awful. I am a solid uh Messandrist. I think men are pretty useless, I respect people less if they're men, um uh trans men are men, and therefore I respect them less as well. Sorry, kings. Um I don't think men are capable of making art. I definitely don't think cis heterosexual men are capable of making art. I think their lives are too easy. Okay? Hot take. Um I think it's hysterical that he is concerned with making art. One, you're a white cis het middle-aged man, two, you're Norwegian, it's not gonna happen for you. Um But I love that he like wrote this thing that got popular, and he like is like vicious for this fame. Like he loves that this thing gave him that notoriety and made him known. Not necessarily in like a Kim Kardashian way, but just like people are interested in it.

Speaker 5 19:29

Well, I think that's complicated. I think he has two very intense feelings, uh contradictory feelings about this, where on the one hand he loves being he wants to be famous, he wants to write good, important art, and he wants to be known for writing good important art. But also it's this, it's like this weird um series of books, uh, just like a where he like talks about like insane stuff that he's done. You know, he's telling a story about how like um uh nobody thought his music that he was doing with his friends was very good, such that a business owner was like, No, you gotta get out of here, you're scaring customers away.

Speaker 20:08

Yep.

Speaker 5 20:09

Um so I think it's um and then like later in the books, these these get like um more and more uh these get more and more personal and painful, um, in ways that I think that he's kind of pathological about and how he writes about it, where like on the one hand, yeah, you're right, like he's and you're also right in that like he's doing this to himself. Like nobody's making Yeah, this is this is a pathological need to complete this project that he's that he started.

Speaker 6 20:42

Um Well simultaneously saying it's ruining his life and he hates it and it ruined his family.

Speaker 5 20:47

He doesn't say that he hates it so much. He does say that like it's it's r it's kind of this um uh uh it's kind of this Faustian bargain that he's created for himself, where like, yeah, you know, spoiler alert I guess, um, but like it ruins his second marriage, um, because of like how he uh frames and writes about uh cheating on his second wife in the fifth book. It um, you know, it it ruins his relationship uh with like a lot of members of his family of his own family, um, based on s the stuff he talks about in the first book. It um he he has this uh it's like ruining a lot of stuff, but also it's it's it has like wide um appeal. It has like a wider popular appeal than pretty much the rest of his novels. And the novels he's written afterwards have gotten famous um and ha or have been more famous. He has another book series that uh he's been coming out with now, um, and that has been popul. It's in like the New York Review of Books. Is coming out with like a new c a new canal scar is coming out. But the only reason anybody knows about this is because they read, you know, these books where he talks about like um seeing where his grandma poops on herself. Um which will get in this one. So uh or like about you know how um like the the shame and guilt he feels, I assume I haven't read this one, uh, about like cheating on his wife.

Speaker 6 22:26

Um I would not assume he feels guilt or shame, honestly.

Speaker 5 22:30

I I would. And for one reason and one reason only, which is that reading the books, that's one of the main emotions he feels. It's one of the main emotions he's willing to talk about is guilt and shame. Um it's one of in fact it's it's kind of one of the only ones. It's um they're confessionals, and so they're built off of that, and so he needs to feel that in order to keep writing the books.

Speaker 6 22:54

That's kind of funny.

Speaker 5 22:55

It's very Catholic of him, which is It's very Catholic, like which is hysterical since you know since he's not Catholic.

Speaker 6 23:01

Exactly.

Speaker 5 23:02

He yeah, he grows up like um uh what are Norwegians? Lutherans. Um, which is just Catholic light.

Speaker 6 23:11

Diet Catholic.

Speaker 5 23:12

Anyway, so the first book uh is about once you get past this kind of um contextualizing on who he is individually, it moves into a part two, which mo the books don't really have parts. They're kind of just this like they don't even really have chapters, they're kind of just like these straight through uh stream of consciousness. Sometimes they'll have like breaks to indicate that like time has passed between one story and the next. Um, but the there's not really like any chapters, there are not like a lot of breaks in the the narrative, such that there is one. Um and so he gets to the second one, and the second one is about um his a combination of getting a call from his uncle that his father has passed away, um, and traveling to um kind of like help set up the funeral and also um help take care of his grandmother, who his father had been staying with. Um his father at the time when he's like uh younger, and I'll get more into this in the third one, um, when he's f younger, isn't really a uh an alcoholic, but like later starts drinking and then is um like a degenerate alcoholic by the time Carlovicinaus guards an adult. Um he goes to the town where uh his grandmother lives. Um he sees uh like the squalid condition she's living in because his dad can't function without alcohol. His uh his grandma he later realized it takes him like his like older brother has to point out, he's like, Hey, I think grandma's an alcoholic too. Um she's just like one of those like social alcoholics, and she's been drinking with dad for years. Um dope.

unknown 25:10

Yeah.

Speaker 5 25:10

Uh so they have to like invite her to drink with them. Uh, but Carl of Kanaskar is like, I don't really want to. It like it's making me feel uncomfortable. Um, but like because his father, who is supposed to be taking care of the grandma, is like a degenerate uh like dysfunctional alcoholic, he hasn't been doing anything. Um, he hasn't like been cooking meals for the grandma, he hasn't been like helping clean up the grandma's house, he hasn't been doing any of this stuff. So they're like they they're trying to like clean up her house so she's not living in like a hovel, essentially. So like they're talking about they're like, okay, like unless our uncle wants to like take her in himself, like this needs to be like a a a nursing home situation. Yeah. Um, she needs like around the clock care, she cannot take care of herself. Um, so like they go back and forth on this. Um, during all of this, he's f musing over and talking to his brother about their father. Um you know, for example, when he's on the plane to get uh back to Norway because he lives in Sweden. Um when he's on the plane, he's like, I'm not going to feel bad about this, I'm not going to do that thing people do where uh like some like a bad person dies and people are like, and he was kind of a good person. I just didn't give him grace. Um so he's like resolving not to do all of these things, but then like within like the stream of consciousness, he's telling a story where he's like, and my dad did this insane shitty thing, but like he didn't like mean it that way. And so he kind of can't even even though like he is telling the story years later, he kind of can't help himself but like do this. It's it's very interesting, it's kind of funny. Um But so they they get the grandmother all cleaned up, and then he goes back home uh to uh where he's he lives with his first wife, um, and that's kind of the end of the the first book. Um the first book is uh one of the more controversial. This is the one that is number one the reason why these have to be legally classified as novels. Um because his uncle the the the uncle that um like let called to let him know that his father had died, um, immediately is like, I'm taking you to court. You shouldn't and can't tell people about that, like the conditions that my mom, your grandmother, was living in. Um you're you're making very public which should be a very private matter. Um and so they like bring him to court, it like goes around, um, he like comes out and interviews and talks about it a little bit. He's basically just like he he kind of just does this thing where he's like, I I'll concede that like the books are based partially on my memory, and so like this is based on how I remember it, he might remember it differently, and that because memory is story that makes this fiction, it's like a novel or whatever, I'll give him that. So officially, if you look for these books, you have to look for them in the fiction section of like any bookstore.

Speaker 6 28:39

Yeah, I've been finding that really fun.

Speaker 5 28:41

Yeah. Um there that's why I have I have them up here in our fiction section of our library.

Speaker 6 28:47

Oh, yeah, I guess I've never thought about that. They're just in the contemporary section up here, which I'm like, yeah, these are contemporary as books.

Speaker 5 28:53

Yeah. Um, so we have the the second one. Um this one is uh interesting. Um the second one is about his uh, like I said, his courtship and relationship with his second wife. Um this one also has kind of a very loose structure that makes it very difficult to talk about. But he has like a bunch of anecdotes. He has an anecdote towards the beginning that's kind of funny, um, which is kind of just about how uncool and unswaggy he finds like the mommy and me classes. Um he like go he like takes his daughter to a uh like a mommy and me class, uh, but it's it's sweet, so it's like a parent in me class. Um and they they they're doing like songs and stuff, and the instructor is like a hot woman, and he like bemoans how uh how uncool the class makes him seem in front of this this uh immediately fuckable woman.

Speaker 6 30:04

Yeah, well he's married, very important, yeah. With his new baby. Um it's not swaggy, bro. Try to fuck other bitches.

Speaker 5 30:13

Yeah, be yeah, being uh incorrigible, being being nasty at the mommy and me class.

Speaker 6 30:19

Yeah.

Speaker 5 30:20

Um, so then he talk he kind of talks about how um uh he he has like a bunch of anecdotes in this one about uh how he gets started in like publishing before he moves on to writing novels. Um he has like part of like a magazine, I think it is. Okay that he does with his brother. Um he has like an anecdote about uh interviewing this uh uh I believe he's a poet. He's like a Norwegian poet. It's kind of he's like famous, it's kind of like the biggest uh interview he gets in his career here. It's it's like a big make or break my career moment. Um he brings his brother along because he's like my brother is really good at kind of like um coming up with follow-up questions really quickly.

Speaker 6 31:09

Can you imagine bringing your brother or like a sibling with you to the most important lesson you've done so far in your career?

Speaker 5 31:15

Right. It's really funny.

Speaker 6 31:16

Hey, you know what's not swaggy, bro?

Speaker 5 31:18

Yeah, showing up with your brother. Um he talks about like basically being like starstruck by this poet. Um they do the interview, his brother's there. The other thing his brother's very good at, by the way, is his brother's very good at remembering these interviews. Um and like remembering the content of them, so he doesn't record them. Which is just dumb. Like he even admits like this is just stupid. Um but basically they do the interview, uh, he goes back, he writes, he does like a write-up on the interview, he does like a like a write-up of like what it was like to be there based on his brother's recollection. He sends it to the poet, and the poet comes back and he's like, This is not correct. None of this is true. That I didn't say any of this stuff, you're misrepresenting the words that I said. Uh, you need to take another pass at this. I do not give my consent to have this published.

Speaker 1 32:12

Hell yeah.

Speaker 5 32:13

So he writes it up again and he sends it back, and the guy is again like, This isn't true. I never said any of this stuff. Uh I he's like, I I think that maybe uh maybe it would be better if this uh interview remained just a nice moment between me, you, and your brother.

Speaker 6 32:31

Um deadass, yeah. Deadass.

Speaker 5 32:33

He's like really frustrated. He's like, he's like, my brother remembered this. He he like recounted it how I remembered it. I couldn't I I I was he was trying he's trying to pull out of this poet, like, what am I ripp misrepresenting? Like what is there that you said that I'm saying differently, and the poet is like the spirit of the poet, kind of like, after like some back and forth, kind of just like admits like oh like the spirit of how you recounted this isn't exactly how I said it. And he's like, Okay, so it's like a spirit thing. So they go back and forth. He he he basically um he's like, I'm sure that my brother remembered it because he recounted it how I remembered it, and he's kind of just like re-litigating this like weird moment he had with this poet. Um, which is just like a funny, he's like a petty guy. He's like a weird guy.

Speaker 1 33:31

Yeah.

Speaker 5 33:31

Um then he talks about uh how he meets his second wife, um, which is they both uh they're both writers, they're both in these like writer workshops in uh I believe they're in Norway. Um they're both in these writer workshops and these writing seminars and uh this kind of thing. Um they meet, they hang out for a while. Uh he like gets really into her. Um he uh they go they go away for a conference and uh he's like getting really getting to know her, and she's like, she's kind of amazing. He's there with he's at this conference with a buddy of his, and the three of them can have been hanging out, and he's like, she's incredible. And so then this moment happens.

Speaker 6 34:22

Oh god, yeah.

Speaker 5 34:23

At three in the morning, when I was as drunk as I had seldom been, I left with her. I said there was something I had to tell her, and then I told her. Exactly what I felt and what I had planned. She said, I like you well enough. You're a great guy, but I'm not interested in you. I'm sorry. But your friend, he's really fantastic. I am interested in him. Do you understand? Yes, I said. I turned and crossed the square, aware that behind me she was walking in the opposite direction, back to the party. A crowd of people had gathered around the front door beneath the trees. Arva wasn't there, so I went back, found him, and told him what Linda had said to me that she was interested in him, now they could be together. But I'm not interested in her, you see, he said. I've got a wonderful a wonderful girlfriend. Shame for you, though, he said. I said it wasn't a shame for me, and crossed the square again, as though in a tunnel where nothing existed except myself, passed the crowd standing outside the house, through the hallway, and into my room where the screen of my computer was lit. I pulled out the plug, switched it off, went into the bathroom, grabbed the glass on the sink, and hurled it at the wall with all the strength I could muster. I waited to hear if there was any reaction, then I took the biggest shard I could find and started cutting my face. I did it methodically, making the cuts as deep as I could and covering my whole face. The chin, cheeks, forehead, nose, underneath the chin. At regular intervals I wiped away the blood with a towel, kept cutting, wiped the blood away. By the time I was satisfied with my handiwork, there was hardly room for one more cut, and I went to bed. Uh I'm going to skip forward a little bit. Uh this is the next morning. I pulled the heavy curtain aside, light flooded into the room. There was a group of people sitting outside, surrounded by knapsacks and suitcases. It would soon be time for farewells. I smashed my fist against the headboard. I had to face the music. There was no way out. I had to face the music. I passed my things in my case with my face stinging, and inside I was stinging as well. I had never experienced such shame before. I was marked. I grabbed the case and walked out. At first no one looked at me, then someone cried out, then everyone looked at me, and I stopped. I apologize for this, I said. Sorry. Linda sat there. She looked at me with wide open eyes, then she started to cry. Others cried as well. Someone came over and placed a hand on my shoulder. So this is a kind of a watershed moment in the in the book, as well as kind of a um an uh a psychological profile you're getting of Carlo Vakanausgard, where you're sort of realizing that like, oh, this guy is mentally ill.

Speaker 6 37:03

That's putting it lightly.

Speaker 5 37:05

This is a uh a a very damaged person. Um he I this was, I think, one of the more shocking moments. I late I read in a later interview he did about this that this wasn't the first time he had ever had a reaction like that. Um and I I don't know this, but I assume also kind of probably not the last time he's had a reaction like that. Um it it's really intense that like he he like gets rejected and it like makes him so distraught that he has to cut up his face.

Speaker 6 37:40

Very like teen girl-coated.

Speaker 5 37:42

Very, very teen girl-coated. Very teen girl. How pretty little liars of him.

Speaker 6 37:47

Very pull-alo.

Speaker 5 37:48

He he leaves the conference, he he later um meets back up with Linda, they talk for a while longer, and eventually she does decide to date him.

Speaker 6 37:58

I mean, you have to at that point, what the fuck else would he do?

Speaker 5 38:03

Yeah, you can't you can't reject him again.

Speaker 6 38:05

Yeah, seriously, that's just a danger.

Speaker 5 38:07

Um he he details like um some like minor uh like marital disagreements they have once they get married. He has like a moment where like she's pregnant, he tells like a longer anecdote about a Russian woman uh who lives downstairs from them and plays very loud music at all hours. Um and uh his second his wife Linda goes downstairs to talk to this woman, and this Russian woman is like, Oh yeah, like no problem. I'm so sorry. You need your sleep. And then she keeps doing it, and so Carl Ova goes down there and she she just starts like yelling at him. She's like, Why did you come down here and talk to me? You're a little bitch, you're a little babyback bitch, um, you're a little pussy, your wife makes you smoke in the courtyard, everybody makes fun of you because you're such a bitch and a pussy.

Speaker 6 39:02

To be fair, that is how I would respond to Carl over Kenel Scott too. You pussy, I heard about your book, you ain't shit, bitch.

Speaker 5 39:10

You ain't shit, uh, fuck you and your mama and your dad.

Speaker 6 39:13

100%.

Speaker 5 39:14

Um so he Um It's like there's like an anecdote like this, um, which prom he he kind of just goes upstairs and he's like, nothing we can do about this. Um his wife is like, no, there's more we can do about this. It's just like less polite. And he's like, well, I don't want to do unpolite stuff.

Speaker 6 39:34

Um nice, go off king.

Speaker 5 39:37

Uh there's uh the second kind of anecdote that like takes the most time is um there's like a very long anecdote where like her Linda's mom uh comes to visit. Uh Linda has her own uh issues with her mental health. Um she gets like really, really depressed. Um she she has like a hard time uh staying motivated. Um her mom moves very close to them so she can help take care of the kids. Um mostly just out of this is this ha this is happening when Karlova Kinausgar is writing his second book, um, during which time he basically like takes out like a subletted like small apartment to like get privacy to write this book.

Speaker 6 40:32

He doesn't need that, he just didn't want to be around his wife.

Speaker 5 40:34

They're having a lot of fights about this. Um anyway, Linda's mom is there, and uh he starts noticing that the alcohol they keep in the house is uh disappearing. And so he like can't confirm it because he doesn't drink that often, and he's like, and I hope Linda's not drinking that often. Um but he basically does the like the dad thing where he starts like marking uh the liquor and like seeing if the levels move, and they do, and so he like brings this evidence to his wife. He's like, Hey, I think your mom is stealing my liquor. And Linda's like, I don't know that that's true. And he's like, No, here, check this out. Before, like, here you can see I've marked all the bottles where they were uh last week, and here this week, uh they're like way down. Uh, and he's like, and I haven't done it, and I've been watching you, and you haven't done it, so I think it's your mom, and she has to be doing it when she's here watching the kids. And he's like, I don't like that. I would like you to take care of this since it's your mom. So, like I said, this is like a very long anecdote through the book. Uh Linda talks to her mom. Um, her mom kind of like immediately starts crying.

Speaker 6 41:51

Um baller mom move. Immediate win, whatever argument you have, you've won.

Speaker 5 41:56

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, so uh they they like go through this, and then the book kind of just all of these books kind of just peter out. Um it's only the third one where there's like a strong-ish ending.

Speaker 42:10

Yeah.

Speaker 5 42:10

Um because it's it's kind of hard to end one of these books. So the book just kind of tapers off. He's like, I really love Linda and she's incredible. Uh no ironic foreshadowing here. Um the third book is uh, like I said, about Carlova Kanausgard who uh his his childhood on the island of Trimoya um and uh his like relationship a closer look at his relationship with his father. Um childhood-wise, um he's like a pretty normal-ish kid. Um he does like weird stuff, but he does like weird kid stuff mostly. Um, you know, like at one point, like him and his friends like find a junkyard, and so they start going to the junkyard yard all the time because they think that's fun.

Speaker 6 43:05

Hell yeah, it's boys-be boys type shit.

Speaker 5 43:07

Um they like play in the woods. Uh they they he uh when he gets older, he starts playing soccer, um, and he gets like a bunch of soccer friends. Um these parts are nice, and I quite liked them. Um But then between a lot of this stuff and kind of framing it, is will are these stories about like um, for example, very, very early in the book, I think within like the first 50 pages, there's and this is the story that I considered reading.

Speaker 6 43:40

Yeah, too much.

Speaker 5 43:41

Um, there's a moment where he uh is his grandparents are over, and he's like, Do you guys wanna or they they ask, like, can you turn the TV on? We'd like to watch TV. This will be uh Norway in the 70s. Um so they have like a what uh like an older like bulb TV. And to me, reading this. What I understand this to be is he goes, he turns on the TV, it flickers on for a second, and then there's a pop, and the pitcher goes out. And to me, I'm like, okay, this is either like a blown fuse situation or the the the bulb burnout.

Speaker 6 44:15

Yeah, which just happens.

Speaker 5 44:16

Yeah, both of these things are things that just happen. However, it is against the rules in their house that he's not supposed to be fucking with the TV. Um so he freaks out. It's really long, he like experiences like this really intense anxiety. Um, every sound i is like his dad coming to get him. Um he's like thinking about the fact that like ordinarily he could just lie, but his grandparents were in there, so they can corroborate that like he was there and he's the one that turned on the TV and the one that broke it. Um he tries to talk to his mom and be like, he's trying to like really low-key be like, hey, can you tell dad that I broke the TV because it'll sound better than coming from you? And his mom is like, Oh, I think it's fine. You broke the that's okay, baby. Like, you're fine. Like, she's not picking up what he's like very, very, very subtly putting down.

Speaker 6 45:08

Um It's about as subtle as a bomb. The child has no subtlety.

Speaker 5 45:11

Um, the dad comes in and uh he like he's like shouting at him and he's like, Did you turn on the TV? You're not supposed to turn on the TV. He's like grabbing him by the ear, and he's like he's like dragging him out into the hallway by his ear. It's really rough.

Speaker 1 45:27

It's intense.

Speaker 5 45:28

He's he like shakes him at one point. Um a lot of moments in the book are like this. Um it's it's pr it's some pretty intense moments. There's a story of uh he's like supposed to be helping his dad set up wood, um, but he wants to hang out with his friends. Um he's also like not very big and not very strong, so he's like struggling to put the wood up for his dad to cut it, and uh his dad starts making fun of him. Karlova Kanausgarn has like the Norwegian version of a lisp, so he starts like making fun of his lisp. Um that part's pretty rough. There's like a lot of parts that are like, oh Jesus Christ. Oh, this kind of comes to a a boiling point when his mom decides to go get her. His mom is like a nurse in like an old folks' home, and uh she decides to go get like an extra certification so she can make more money. Uh, but to do so, she would have to go to I think she goes to Oslo for like six months. Um and basically she's like living near Oslo and then for like five days out of the week, and then she's coming home Friday night, she's staying Saturday, and then she's leaving again like Sunday afternoon.

Speaker 1 46:51

Yeah.

Speaker 5 46:51

Um, so he's like throughout the week, he's it's just him, his brother, and his dad. Um, and he has like a lot of anxiety about this. He's like trying to like be on his best behavior, but his dad just like finds stuff to get upset about. Yep. Um, all of this stuff is pretty grim and pretty awful. Um and then uh eventually his mom moves back home. Uh and then it's his dad's turn. His dad uh goes and gets his he gets like an extra degree, I believe. Um He mentions in this book that later he like grabs a drink with his father when they're when he's an adult, and um he he talks about he's going to Reykjavik for something, and his dad's like, Oh, I've been to Reykjavik, it's like a nice place. And he's like, When the fuck did you go to Reykjavik? And his dad's like, Oh, so you remember when I went and got like a master's degree, um, and I was like live I was like living in Bergen, I think. Um he did go to Bergen, but just like while he was staying there, he had like a he was like fucking another woman on the side and she wanted to go to Reykjavik, so he took her to Reykjavik. Um and he's like and Karlov Kenaskar is like, okay. And he's like, don't be weird about this. Um the uh so uh eventually his dad comes back. I believe his dad gets a job elsewhere, um, and also uh the his dad gets a job on the mainland, and also Carl of a Kanausgar is like done with uh Norwegian high school, and he's time for Norwegian high school part two. This is when he moves to the apartment that his grandfather left them in an inheritance. Um which is kind of just where the book ends there.

Speaker 6 48:49

Right.

Speaker 5 48:49

Um, other than this, there's like um there's like anecdotes about like his friendships, his relationships with other people, his like burgeoning sexuality.

Speaker 6 48:59

Which we definitely need to hear about as a guy who like loves cheating on wives.

Speaker 5 49:02

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So here's a moment. He um there's like a girl who um comes and watches him play soccer, and uh he's like she's kind of like one of the cuter girls at school. Uh so he like chats her up, and he's like, You wanna come out with me? And so they ride their bikes, which is this here. I know somewhere nice, I said. It's not far. She didn't say anything. We cycled past the Fina station. I pointed up the hill between the trees. Again she jumped off as soon as the road became steeper. A thin layer of sweat glistened on her forehead. We walked past the old white house and the old red barn. The sky was clear and blue. The sun hung over the ridges to the west, a silent blaze. Its light gave the leaves on the trees in front of us an intense glow. The air was filled with bird song. I was close to throwing up. We entered the path, light filtered down between the treetops as I had imagined it. It was refracted in a similar way to the way it was refracted underwater. Pillars of light sloped into the ground. I stopped. We can put our bikes here, I said. We did. Both of us kicked out the stands and stood our bikes upright. I started walking, and she followed. I looked for a suitable place to lie down, grass or moss. Our footsteps made unnatural made unnaturally loud. I didn't dare look at her, but she was right behind me. There. That was a good spot. We can lie down here, I said. Without looking at her, I sat down. After some hesitation she sat down next to me. I put my hand in my pocket and located my watch. I took it out, held it in my open palm in front of her. Shall we time how long we can kiss? I said. What? she said. I've got a watch, I said. Tor managed ten minutes. We can beat that. I put the watch on the ground. It was 18 minutes to eight, I noted, placed my hands on her shoulders, and gently leaned her back while pressing my lips against hers. When we were both lying down, I inserted my tongue into her mouth, it met hers, pointed and soft like a little animal, and I began to move my tongue around and round inside. I had my hands alongside my body. I wasn't touching her with anything except my lips and my tongue. Our bodies lay like two small boats laid up on land beneath the treetops. I concentrated on getting my tongue to go round as smoothly as possible, while the thought of her breasts, which were so close to me, and her thighs, which were so close to me, and what was between her thighs, under her trousers, under her panties, was seared into my consciousness. But I didn't dare touch her. She lay with her eyes closed, rotating her tongue around mine. I had my eyes opened, groped for the watch, found it, held it within reach. Three minutes so far. Some saliva ran down from the corner of my mouth. Oh, gross! She wriggled. I pressed my groin against the ground, letting my tongue go round and round and round and round. This wasn't as good as I had imagined. In fact, it was quite strenuous. Some dry leaves crunched beneath her head as she shifted position. Our mouths were full of thick saliva. Seven minutes now. Four left. Mmm, she said, but this was not a sound of pleasure. There was something wrong. She stirred, but I didn't let go. She moved her head while I continued to rotate my tongue. She opened her eyes but didn't look at me. They were staring at the sky above us, nine minutes. The roof of my tongue ached. More saliva from the corner of her mouths. My braces occasionally knocked against her teeth. Actually, we didn't need to continue for more than ten minutes and one second to beat Tor's record, and that was now. We had beaten him now, but we could beat him by a large margin. Fifteen minutes? That ought to be possible. Five left then. But my tongue ached. It seemed to be swelling, and the saliva, which you didn't notice much when it was hot, left you with a slight feeling of revulsion when it ran down your chin, not quite so hot. Twelve minutes. Isn't that enough? Enough now? No, a bit more. A bit more. At exactly three minutes to eight, I took my head away. She got up, wiped her mouth with her hand without looking at me. We did fifteen minutes, I said, getting up. We beat him by five minutes. Um, and then she um doesn't talk to him anymore.

Speaker 6 52:46

I get it! I'm with her, I'm with her, dude. You're a freak. I I Oh Jesus Christ. Like Freak shit, bro.

Speaker 5 52:58

This is the type of stuff that I'm like, it's it's a it's a level of insane honesty that you're like, you didn't have to do this.

Speaker 6 53:04

No one asked. Honestly, nobody asked for that.

Speaker 5 53:06

Earlier, earlier in this book, he has like a weird section where he talks about like um he's he's like been constipated for a while and he's having like a hard time pooping. And so he like goes into the bathroom and shoves his finger up his butthole to see if he can like feel the poop in there. And he can. And you're like, why would you put this? You nobody This is the type of memory I have for like a brief second, and then I like push it as far down as possible, and I go, I didn't remember that.

Speaker 6 53:35

There is something like I'm gonna be kind of honest. Like, I'm taking a lot of sick pleasure in this guy being like, This book has ruined my life. I hate that everyone knows it. And we're like, put it on a podcast. Tell more people about it. We are helping to perpetuate the shame he has created.

Speaker 5 53:55

Yeah, we're we're we're set we're setting it up for him.

Speaker 6 53:57

Yes, we have to.

Speaker 5 53:59

Um, but I mean, like, I I love these books. I find them really fun to read. Um it's kind of fucked that you find them fun to read, honestly. Um, I I talked about this recently where I think part of it is kind of just that I like memoirs. You do. Um, I like the the feeling of tea that you get from reading somebody's memoir. Um I just think they're fun. Uh and this is the most insane version.

Speaker 6 54:27

Th there usually is something nice about a memoir, but like they're so like buttoned-up and cleaned up. Like, there's very rarely like I fingered my butt for poop. Like, usually people are like, please don't put that in there. And this guy's like, um, so my fingers up my butt, I'm touching poop, I have chin spit down. Like, it's just like really embarrassing yourself, dude. Embarrassing yourself by rubbing your hands together and going, let me tell him about that time I cut my face. Because on the one hand, like, yes, this is like a practice in honesty for him, but on the other hand, like my brother in Christ.

Speaker 5 55:02

Who asked for this?

Speaker 6 55:04

You wrote this, reviewed it, sent it to your editor, got the edits back, reviewed it, got the like uh advanced copy before it got published, and every single time you were like, Looks good to me.

Speaker 5 55:19

Yeah, like surely there is like an editor going, like, yeah, I don't know that the butthole stuff is the linchpin of the story. I think we can take that out.

Speaker 6 55:26

The editor was like, but huff is is very important to you as a character. I get it.

Speaker 5 55:30

I do think that some of it seems like it this book seems like it would be hard to edit.

Speaker 6 55:35

That's putting it lightly.

Speaker 5 55:37

For for like a couple reasons. Number one, like part of editing is being like, you're wrong about this, right? Like the uh incorrect. Um, but like you or like you this isn't anything, this it like doesn't help the the story. But like the story is just like stuff he's thinking about. Um so like you kind of have this moment where like the uh the editor is having to be like, you know, I I don't know that like you need to include this section. Um the but which leads to the second thing that makes that I imagine would make these books very difficult to edit, which is that it they kind of He would I think he would hate this comparison, they kind of have a structure similar to like regularly updating fan fiction. Big, big facts. Where like, you know, like sure, like should you probably take out the um the I fingered my butthole for poop story? Probably, but like it's kind of one of those things where like there's a story that leads into the butthole poop story, um, which then like but then like he's like using that to swing to the next topic. So if you take that out, it feels like there's this like sudden jarring jump from one topic to another. Oh, there's a lot of things. Because you're missing the where is the butthole?

Speaker 6 56:57

I I'm missing my butthole.

Speaker 5 56:59

Um so yeah, so this is uh you you have this like um kind of like swinging from topic to topic. Again, even with the third book, which like I said is much more structured than the others, it's like mostly chronological. It's the book with the most breaks, because he's like indicating that like this is at a later date, like a later time this is happening. Because this book uh kind of like sort of chronologically covers like from him being very, very young to when he's like 14 or 15.

Speaker 6 57:30

I just I I I love these books.

Speaker 5 57:33

Oh, for sure.

Speaker 6 57:34

I love these books. I love you telling me about these books, but something about them is also just like, hey buddy, why like uh how deep does the mental illness go that you're like I think I gotta put in butthole stuff. No, like I think that's really fundamental to who I am as a time. Like, like, okay, as someone who loves to trauma dump, yeah, sure. I get the fattest boner from trauma dumping. Even I am like, I don't know about some of these stories.

Speaker 5 58:03

Um and also what's very important is that like between these moments, especially in the first and second one, between these moments, imagine like between all these anecdotes, there's like five or six anecdotes where he's like hanging out with a friend of his and they're like discussing like a very in-depth topic about like um like at one point they have like a discussion where his friend talks about like um his relationship to the philosophy of Martin Heidegger. Um which which like the the complexity there being that um uh Martin Heidegger an influential uh philosopher, also a Nazi.

Speaker 6 58:44

Yep.

Speaker 5 58:45

Um or like um you know, kind of similarly, uh he there's like a section where he talks to a buddy of his about how they feel about again, kind of s in the same vein, how they feel about their complex feelings about reading the novels of Knut Hamson, which is a uh influential uh Norwegian novelist who also um really wants the Nazis to invade Norway and really supports them when they do, and then after the Nazis are defeated, uh he basically gets um like exiled from public life by the Norwegian government like the Norwegian government is like, you're not allowed to public books publish books anymore, you're a fucking freak.

Speaker 6 59:32

I this Karl Ova, I think I can say this with uh more confidence than any person could say anything in the world, uh, is an absolute fucking edgelord.

Speaker 5 59:42

Yes, for sure.

Speaker 6 59:43

And part of me is like mad respect, King, and part of me is like, are you fucking kidding me, dude? Like seriously, this is what you want to edge over?

Speaker 5 59:50

He he he has like very he has like chronic Gen X syndrome.

Speaker 6 59:54

Oh my god.

Speaker 5 59:55

He has like edgy Gen Xer disorder.

Speaker 6 59:58

No, stop, the edgelords need him. As someone who's read his other books, do you think that he as an artist is worthy of respect even if he's telling you about his butt? Do you respect his other works? So Hell yeah, this sounds like a complicated answer.

Speaker 5 1:00:18

I I think it's a little complicated. Uh I think so do I love Do I think he's an artist worthy of respect? Yes. To me, I am like extremely aware, especially now when I read like his like I said, he has like a book series that's like still coming out. Um The Morning Star series, which I have been reading through. And I do read them and think about them like I I read a book I read a book where like this guy got rejected by a woman and cut up his own face.

Speaker 6 1:00:51

Cringe shit.

Speaker 5 1:00:53

But it's also to me, it also makes me think about like um like Chuck Bukowski, right? Chuck Bukowski is kind of also in this vein of like the type of person who that like has kind of like a uh an overly masculine and kind of real like cigarettes and um depression in a man style uh art that like people get really into. Um and then with him people kind of mythologize his personal life. Um and so people kind of mythologize Bukowski's personal life in a way that they kind of can't Carlova Kinausgaard because his personal life is very on the surface, and you can read it, right? Where like with Bukowski you can be like, oh, like here's this story about him, or you can do this about like a lot of um Ernest Hemingway is another person people do this with a lot.

Speaker 1:01:49

Yeah.

Speaker 5 1:01:50

Where like um people get really into mythologizing his personal life, which to them kind of enhances the edginess of his art. Um, but with Carlova Kanausgarde, you read the stuff he writes and you go, this guy fingered his butthole for poop. Um I also want to be clear that I like his novels. I think his novels are are are good. I think they're really good. I love them. Um I don't know that I would necessarily describe he's one of my favorite uh authors, but I don't know that I would necessarily describe him as like this uh elevated artist, this person who has reached his pinnacle and created great art. Um except for uh these these books, which I I think are are insane. Yeah, these are art. These are art in a very um ironic way, I feel.

Speaker 6 1:02:54

Yeah, I I love him, I hate him, I think he's the worst, I'm obsessed. I imagine this is how like um Gen Z kids felt about like live blogging.

Speaker 1:03:04

Oh sure.

Speaker 6 1:03:05

Because this is how I feel. I'm like, yes, this is amazing. You're right. Keep going, tell me more. Like I'm just like foaming at the mouth for him to admit more like awful shit.

Speaker 1 1:03:15

Yeah.

Speaker 6 1:03:16

Um I I don't know. I think he's fascinating. I love when you read these books. I also will say we have um, I believe we have like the American edition and like the Norwegian English edition, like the American and Norwegian English. Um because the Norwegian versions are like cut in a perfect square.

Speaker 1 1:03:32

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 6 1:03:33

Love that we get Norwegian English editions. I love a book that's a perfect square. I'm thinking about taking up book binding as a hobby, and if I do, every single fucking book I come from like scratch, square.

Speaker 5 1:03:45

Yeah, these are um, this is a I don't know that it's Norwegian, but it's uh published by a publisher called Archipelago Books, and their thing is that their books have this like very square shape rather than the ordinary rectangular shape of books.

Speaker 6 1:03:59

You know what? We need to go back to a world where books are shaped just a little bit funky.

Speaker 5 1:04:04

Yeah, make your book distinctive.

Speaker 6 1:04:06

Make your book funky. Who cares about how much it costs in additional publishing? We don't care about that. Um JT spends too much on books, but so do I recently. I don't want to tell you how much I spent at books for bookCon.

Speaker 5 1:04:19

That's okay.

Speaker 6 1:04:20

But I will, but not on the podcast.

Speaker 5 1:04:22

Not on the podcast.

Speaker 6 1:04:23

It's private information, you guys. I'm like Carl Ova. I'm not gonna tell you up on my personal life. I'm gonna keep that to my personal Instagram. No, I'm not. I don't put it on my personal Instagram. You know why? Why it keeps recommending my bosses follow me.

Speaker 5 1:04:38

Oh, that's fucked.

Speaker 6 1:04:39

Yeah. Isn't it?

Speaker 5 1:04:41

That's pretty fucked up, yeah, for sure.

Speaker 6 1:04:43

I agreed.

Speaker 5 1:04:44

Mine, I don't I haven't I've never seen my bosses on there, but I have seen like former co-workers.

Speaker 6 1:04:50

To be fair though, your industry and your coworkers and your bosses are way more fucking chill.

Speaker 5 1:04:56

Yeah, for sure.

Speaker 6 1:04:57

Bro, you got some crazy books.

Speaker 5 1:04:59

I do, thank you. That's my struggle, books one through three.

Speaker 6 1:05:02

And let me tell you, I am struggling to hear about it. That you like my joke.

Speaker 5 1:05:07

I do.

Speaker 6 1:05:08

Okay, let's see. I don't know what's next. I don't know, I don't know what.

Speaker 5 1:05:12

You haven't decided yet.

Speaker 6 1:05:13

Haven't decided yet, you guys. Um I guess I'll have to read something like not in a series, because Jesus Christ, you love a good series book, don't you? I apparently. You love a good series book. I gotta find some more unhinged, but less unhinged than cutting your face up in a mirror.

Speaker 5 1:05:29

Yeah, for sure.

Speaker 6 1:05:29

I can't believe she married him after that, by the way. Just to like put a little like endnote on that. The fact if you rolled up to me after I was like, I don't know about this, bruh, and you would like your face entirely cut up, and people are crying when they look at you, and I'm crying, and then I was like, I don't know, he seems like married twenty-year-old girl. That seems like the most unhinged person you could literally ever marry. You are marrying a walking divorce. It's awesome. It is awesome. Dude, is Carl Ova his first name or is Carl his first name? We love you. You look very handsome today. You can't tell, but he looks very handsome. Okay. Have a good one.

Speaker 2 1:07:09

Do not compare me to my father. Do not compare me to my father. Do not compare me to my father. Do not compare me to my father. Every day I wake up and I hope you're dead! Every day I wake up and I hope you're dead! Every day I wake up and I hope you're dead!

Speaker 3 1:07:32

Every game I am going down!

Speaker 4 1:07:41

I'm the baby my girl! I the baby my boy! Hey! I the baby my girl! I the baby my boy! Hey! I the baby my girl! I the baby my boy! I must death!

Speaker 2 1:08:03

I must death! You are a worthless little piece of shit's mommy left daddy!

Speaker 4 1:08:10

I'm upset! I'm a dead! You are a worthless one-bush- Little piece of shit, Bobby Left Daddy! For the final bumper fucking time! Say it louder! I'm upset! Back to being ha! Back to being ha